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 Post subject: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 15 May 2020 08:05 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 355
Location: Maine/USVI
I figured what the hell. I put in Newfound ports, I might as well pull down the overhead and remove all the deck hardware, prime and paint the deck (roll and tip, etc.). Not bad leaks showing (stains on the backside of the finished masonite), but some pretty stupid backing. The traveler is simply screws into the sea hood and two long bolts on either end of the traveler at the teak bases. The backing for the traveler below is a 3/4" x no more than 1.5" rectangle of aluminum. I'm going to reinforce with West System and biaxial glass from below and put in real backing plates. I've been looking at the whole setup to maybe add some more long bolts further inboard somehow.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 15 May 2020 09:32 
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Midshipman

Joined: 16 Jan 2019 08:52
Posts: 63
I would be very interested in some photos. I will be undertaking the same procedure in the future and am mostly interested in water egress around the cabin bulkhead and after most section of the cabin. I would presume that most of the penetration is from the traveller and any other improperly bedded equipment and fittings. Good luck. Mark #337


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 15 May 2020 15:27 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 157
The traveler track is 1/4” stainless machine screws tapped into an aluminum plate that is glassed into the spray hood. I think the screws are on 2” centers. That plus the 2 long 1/4” stainless bolts at each end. Beef it up if you want but an accidental jibe that broke my traveler car in 2 didn’t have any effect on the track mounting. I have sailed the boat in some reasonably challenging weather and my neighbor took his across the Atlantic and back. Just sayin’.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 16 May 2020 12:06 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 556
I would not recommend putting more backing plate in the spray hood. I have owned my T37 for 28 years, sailed in through Pacific and Atlantic storms with a few accidental jibes and never had any issue. I recently replaced the traveller and discovered the construction mentioned here. I could not get those bolts out of the SS strip and there was no cracking of the glass there--though there was some spider cracking where the hood articulates with the sides. I do not see that putting more metal or glass under the main part of the traveller would add anything but weight.
I could not turn out the old bolts, even after using every solvent and heat treatment I could come up with. So I eventually used a thin blade on my multi tool and sawed them off. Again, there was no evidence of delamination under there from years of hard use. I ordered and installed a new traveller from Garhauer and had them drill holes so that I could tap new threads into the same bar. I beefed up the backing plates on the end, but that is all. I expect this fix to out live me. Oh, and the Garhauer traveller was done perfectly as you would expect and works soooo much better than the old Schaefer stuff. Wish I had done this about 20 years ago.
Ray Durkee


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 17 May 2020 06:08 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 355
Location: Maine/USVI
I've put in 3 Garhauer travelers over the years beginning way back when they first got at it. Ease of movement is nice.

I see the opportunity to add one more 6.25" (roughly) 1/4" bolt on the ends of the traveler inboard of the other two. I'll have a couple of 1" diameter or square (if necessary) aluminum bushings made up to contain the bolts in that space between the wood blocks on the ends of the traveler and the sea hood. THEN put in real backing plates that encompass all 3 bolts on each end of the traveler.

I've even pulled all the dodger paraphernalia. Everything that can come up is coming up, fill the holes with epoxy, and back down. I'm sitting here waiting for Lowe's to open so I can get some countersink bits to deal with everything.

I'm going to leave the stanchions. Everything else I can get out/up without breaking is coming out.

Yesterday I made another nasty sawzall cut in the aft end of the keel and it's still dripping. I thought I had it stopped, but when I touched up (with the grinder) what I'd done previously to start putting it back together, the drip started again. I have a week of dry weather. She'll get sealed and gummed back together.

The worst item that has come off the deck thus far is the fairlead that contains the centerboard pennant forward of the traveler. That sucked a lot of water over the years, and the bronze u-bolt was thinned down to about 1/8" diameter on each leg. Some of the deck hardware had lost it's fastening nut over the years. Some things are just screwed in, like the dodger mounts in the cockpit, where they really should be bolted. I'm fixing those items while I'm at it. Ordering a Rocna and appropriate bow roller while I'm at all this. The new Muir windlass will go down lined up as appropriate (on a teak block, carefully shaped) and the existing hawse pipe will be used for a spare anchor (the delta that came with) on 30' of chain and 200' of rode. The Rocna will be on 150' of chain, 150' of rode. I lived for years with the 30'/200' setup weekending between the Spanish, British and U.S. Virgin Islands. Never had problem, so I feel good about the setup. Need to get some snubbers. Where's the checklist?

I'll get the foredeck and the cockpit stuff today, hopefully, and get these holes all filled over the next few days. Has to be done before I put the new overhead back up. I'm going to use basically the same material for the overhead panels. The hell with it. It lasted 40 years. I found one that is sort of "satin" rather than glossy. While I'm not wild about Masonite, it lasted 40 years, and I don't expect to last that long. I also painted the interior side panels with BIN (primer) 2 coats around the Newfound portlights. Those will go into a satin finish Herreshof style white where I butchered around the windows and had to put in new (not teak) plywood. Teak trim goes back in and Bob's your auntie.

Oh, and I've eyeballed the hell out of the traveler bolts into the sea hood, assumed they were into aluminum as with the hull/deck flange, and never touched them. Hard enough to get the 4 end bolts out. I figured those would just not happen. I don't think this traveler was ever used much. It's just faded, but not abused. On the port side of the sea hood is cracking from an obvious hard jibe. I think the third bolt (if I DO do that) and a proper backing plate would make all the difference.

I got photos, I just have to sit and upload them directly from the phone. The "tower in a box" radar arch should be here in the next week or so.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 18 May 2020 08:37 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 355
Location: Maine/USVI
Zoombats wrote:
I would be very interested in some photos. I will be undertaking the same procedure in the future and am mostly interested in water egress around the cabin bulkhead and after most section of the cabin. I would presume that most of the penetration is from the traveller and any other improperly bedded equipment and fittings. Good luck. Mark #337


Well, it's very green. I left the forwardmost piece of overhead panel in place, since I'd have to tear a bunch more woodwork out to get at it. It's neat, clean (the overhead panel) and there's nothing behind it that I have to remove or rebed. Doesn't look bad at the bulkhead in the salon. Worst spot was port side traveler end. Rotted the top of the port aft light teak.

Oh, and the "screw in your drill trick" works about 75% of the time for bung removal. The little chisel or a small screwdriver works the rest of the time.

NOTHING was really bedded right on deck. Slap/jab screw. I hate silicone. Instead of re-bedding, someone touched up (carefully) with silicone around various components. I'm going to put everything back where I want it after I've filled everything, faired, primed and painted. The primary rot, I believe, in the portlight panels was from the cheapo Becksons that became brittle, cracked at the frame and allowed water in. On or two of the lights, there WAS a little rot at the top and some staining on the topside (masonite) of the panels. But not a huge amount. Obviously enough to be problematic, though. I saw one Youtube couple looking at a T-37 that initially looked O.K. and the guy touches the overhead panel to starboard amidships and a torrent of water rushed out.

Got the foredeck holes all filt, thinking about making the hawse pipe go away. Neat, clean and uncluttered and put on the new Muir 1250 with capstan. Next clean, plug (Gorilla tape is great stuff) and fill all the holes at the companionway deck. Still have to get the mid-deck hardware, turning blocks, etc. off. Then pull the cockpit 2 speeds and all the other little things. Leaving the stanchions. Getting tired of disassembly to get at things. Small bristle artists brushes will get me in the toughest spots on the deck.

Wait 'til YOU'RE 65 and stuffed up in the chain locker alone trying to undo recalcitrant 3/8" nuts over threads full of goo. I got it all, but not without considerable profanity and blood. Love a clean foredeck. Yes, I think I'll spend some time staring at the hawse pipe and whether filling that hole is worth it. Easy enough, but will I prefer that I didn't at some point. Spare anchor could be stored elsewhere, pulled out when needed. Less weight in the bow. I like the idea.

I don't know if I'm going to keep this traveler or go for the Garhauer. I see a world of shit in getting this piece of aluminum off the sea hood. And, again, it doesn't appear to have been used a helluva lot.

I'm going to pull out the engine panel rig there and the other side of the cockpit - the little cubby holes to sand and paint, but, again, someone seems to have gotten wiggy with silicone or other rubber bonding material. I'm pulling off cleats and apparently unnecessary accoutrements and I'll just put it all back together the way I want it. Even thought about losing the spin pole and (maybe) whisker mounts that clutter the port deck. I haven't convinced myself the spin pole (except maybe a carbon fiber replacement) is necessary to bluewater.

And NOW, at a time when I originally planned to begin heading for S of 12N, there's a named friggin' storm in the Atlantic. Cute. I took a bunch of photos. I'll post when I get a chance (sure, just like last time mutters the reader).


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 19 May 2020 09:59 
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Midshipman

Joined: 16 Jan 2019 08:52
Posts: 63
"Wait 'til YOU'RE 65 and stuffed up in the chain locker alone" ... Born in "54" so been there. I think that my first job at age 25 was grinding fiberglass in the forepeak on a hot July day wearing shorts and no shirt. Foolhardy youth. Thanks for the update. You have a good job ahead of you. I hope not really, to be taking on the deck work when I get the engine re-installed and get down the ditch to Florida. Now I am returning to Georgian Bay to "quarantine" for two weeks and resume a house building project on an island. Back in the boating world in the fall. Good luck with the project. mark #337


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 19 May 2020 15:05 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 355
Location: Maine/USVI
"Been there." BUT have you been where your port winch nuts are accessed to remove the winch and the attendant cleat? Holy crap. That was today's festivities after I got done with the West System filling. In through the lazarette and contortions. Made me consider tossing the new water heater that's installed. What a waste of space. We had a smaller water heater than that in our house in St. Thomas.

Got all the deck hardware out that I'm taking out except for a couple small items aft. Good work surface. Countersunk 85% of it, taped from underneath with gorilla tape, filled with thickened west system. Even got the wood blocks out from under the traveler in one piece. I have to say, I hate people that use silicone on boats. Really, really hate them. And people that use 5200 where they shouldn't. Really. I'll get the rest of the items off the deck and finish the other 15% of the filling. Then sand everything, toerails, scrub the nonskid with Scotch pads like mad, make sure we got completely rid of all the friggin' silicone.

The primer I got I talked to Epifanes about. It's a 1 part primer so I can go over 1 part paint (nonskid and most of the white above decks was hit with 1 part) AND they tell me it will stand up to the 2 part linear polyurethane I'm going to put over all the white. We'll just paint the nonskid with that new stuff that's out there. Can't remember the name right now.

Tying into it daily for at least 4 hours a day. Trouble is, the interior of the boat now looks like "my side" of the garage. Shit strewn everywhere. Seriously bad. Time to stop, clean and organize. Just need to get all the holes filled before the weather switches out on me.

Next I've got to get the two shelf/cockpit compartments port (engine controls) and starboard of the helm out. Seriously, that's the only way I'll ever get the port winch back in place. The port one I have to look at everything, disassemble and . . . do I really need a bilge blower? Let's see, there's no vents on the aft of the boat anywhere . . . hmm. Diesel. Hmmm. LP is vented overboard.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 26 May 2020 08:34 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 21 May 2020 10:35
Posts: 6
Pictures would be great. The boat I'm surveying Tuesday certainly has moisture. Question is how much. Most visible area is aft of the mast. Panel removal and repair there should be straight forward. The genoa track maybe not so much.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Pulled down the salon overhead panels
PostPosted: 26 May 2020 09:25 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 355
Location: Maine/USVI
Foredeck and the area aft of the mast where the turning blocks lay would likely have the most water intrustion. It wasn't too bad around the 4 bolts that actually hold the traveler. The bolts in the middle are all into the sea hood. Genoa tracks you . . . can . . . see from the stbd locker?

A lot of what you have to get at to see everything is behind the the furniture and liner. You start taking things apart at the aft bulkhead. The areas around the portlights, where there is rot or discoloring at the top of the lights (or anywhere, for that matter) indicates water moving across the top of the liner to the teak woodwork. Bottom of the portlights is just crappy Beckson lights becoming brittle, cracking at the bottom. I put in Newfounds, fixed the plywood around and painted it white.

Tartan construction I'd rate "average." All the boats I've refitted have had serious deficiencies here and there. Bristol and Pearson bulkhead tabbing wasn't the greatest. Tartan is much more impressive. Tartan spar and rigging are well done. Interior woodwork is above average, but flimsy in places. This deck hardware - the backings were a joke. Not a single fender washer (at least?). Teak exterior grabrails are NOT bolted in. They're held in place with wood screws with finish washers from below.

Find a baseline with your moisture meter and go from there. Check around through hulls, deck hardware and side to side on the genoa tracks. I sounded the deck before I bought it, some issues forward and the turning block areas, but boat was covered every winter.

Oh, and what the HELL is with TWO bilge pumps into the cockpit well and draining overboard through the scuppers. I'll post separately on that.


 
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