Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pintle

sailingsoulianis · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2019 13:59

I've been searching through all the pintle posts I can find. But haven't seen an obvious answer yet so I thought I'd try this...

Does anyone know if the entire skeg needs to be cut off to access all the pintle bolts? Or can I just cut off the vertical fairings covering the gap between the rudder and the skeg to get to them? There isn't enough clearance for me to see anything inside the skeg to get a good idea of how much room I'll have in there.

I know a lot of you have done work on the rudder, so hoping I can learn a thing or two from prior experience before I start cutting things off the boat Smile

Thanks!

Kirk

Maineiac · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2019 15:51

I just deleted my whole answer. I have to ask the youngest some questions. Like how we got ahold of the bolt heads putting it all back together. I have photos somewhere.

Wrong. Bolt heads are tack welded. No need to get in there.

Timshel · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2010 10:24 **Posts:** 193

Kirk, no need to remove skeg, To remove Pintle you have to cut a chunk out of the leading edge of the rudder,about 3”, to let the Pintle drop out, ( sawzall) Once you have done this you have enough access for a wrench. Once done, glue the chunk back (5200 ?)
Check bolt pattern before getting a new one as they are not all the same. Photos are in VT, I am on boat in FL

Maineiac · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2019 08:57

Attachment:

Rudder stainless tabbed above pintle area.jpg [ 611.99 KB | Viewed 0 times ]

Right right. My rudder didn't have the plug from the outset, but rather a large gap (3-4") below the pintle plate. Timshel is talking BELOW the pintle. There is a plug of "bondo" like material that is merely filler. There is no steel in the lower end of the rudder - it's all above the pintle. You're still going to have to take the fairing flap off one side or the other to get at it. WRONG AGAIN. No need to get in there. THAT'S why I couldn't think of what we did. We didn't need to do any cutting.
AND THE BOLT HEADS ARE WELDED.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2019 09:00

I had the heads of the bolts welded all the way around. Forgot that. You don't NEED to get at the bolt heads. They're welded. Your's probably has a single tack. Duh. Sorry about that.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2019 09:02

So all you're doing, if you choose to leave the rudder hanging without removal and the skeg in place, is making space for the pintle and bushing to drop out when you undo the nuts.

Don't just start banging on the bolts to drive them through. It will work against the bushing that's inside the rudderpost. It might come out O.K., but go out and tap just forward of the rudder to make sure the bushing comes out true. It's probably re-usable.

But be sure to support the rudder before you take the pintle plate out. Just to be sure. But as I recall you don't have that large washer on the rudderpost to keep it from contacting the hull above. Be sure to get the right thickness. i think the one i put on is a little thin.

My mind hasn't been on this task in several months. I'm baking my brain with too many elderly electronics now.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2019 13:58

Now I got to look. I'm hull 216 and didn't note any particular packing on shaft.

Timshel assumes the skeg stays in place (I think) and Lunacy assumes the skeg is coming off (I think). I can see where I might be able to get the pintle unit out without dropping the rudder or removing the skeg, if the "notch" is cut out, but taking the rudder out might be required. If so, you'll need ground clearance. I had 1/4" to spare on a concrete floor. The whole unit, pintle, skeg and rudder, go back up as one. I just kept blocking and shimming the bottom of the rudder until I had the bolts well in, using a long 2x4 as a lever to carefully lift the rudder, jam it in place, head up and put the nuts on the bolts (i used 4200). It's better if there's two to tango on this. Make sure you have a backing plate inside. I saw one T37 with just washers.

EDIT: But as I recall reading, there are issues with trying to put it all back together if you don't take the skeg off as well. It just doesn't work well. So to get your pintle plate & bushing out, I think the whole shooting match comes out, rudder and skeg. I think the consensus was that the whole thing goes back together all at once, and trying to re-fit the rudder with the skeg already in place is problematic due to the narrow aft aperture of the skeg. Mine was gone, so I had to whittle a new skeg and install it all at once anyway.

None of this is an insurmountable undertaking. Just make certain you have clearance to get the rudder out.

sailingsoulianis · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2019 17:46

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. All very helpful - especially the bit about cutting the chunk out of the rudder and the the welds on the bolt heads. That really helps me wrap my head around what I need to do and how much access I'll need.

The only "issue" I'm really having is a bit more vertical movement of the rudder than I think I'd like when beating into waves. My guess is due to this being a fresh water boat and it being hauled out for half the year each year of its life that the pintle itself is not that bad. So this is all a bit exploratory...

Maineiac · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2019 18:46

You need a giant delrin washer that slides onto the rudderpost from the top (when you have the rudder out) and sits between the top of the rudder and the hull. But mine had zero play up and down and was somehow secured inside as well. Got to ask the bilge monkey. He took the quadrant apart. I've had him doing this since he was 5, hanging by his ankles cleaning dirty bilges. That was 30 years ago.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 24 Dec 2019 10:54

Photos. I know they're sideways. Best I can do I guess. There's your rudderpost delrin "washer." If I did it again I'd do it thicker. And a view of the whole assembly headed back upward. Fairing flaps remain on the top, to be fabricated and installed anew on the bottom. Maybe a pressure curved piece of 1/4" plywood to exactly what I want for shape, wax it up and lay up some biax, smooth it with filler, a few stainless screws and fair it out. That's the first guess, anyway. I will use the easiest sanding West filler to replace the "plug" below the pintle. Bondo absorbs and holds water. No good.

I didn't HAVE to cut up the rudder and re-foam it. There were some drops of water coming out of the rudder, so I panicked. The foam was solid inside. The bottom leading point of the rudder had been dinged and leaked a tiny bit. All new now, anyway. Sealed up tight.

Look closely at the rudder photo (click on it to orient it correctly). The top of the rudder is quite wide/thick and different than the bottom. The issue with putting it all back together if you haven't removed the skeg is getting that fat top past everything and up and in. I didn't have to deal with that, but I imagine it takes some serious cramming.

Tartan37.com

Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pintle

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