pintle pin floats up

Maineiac · **Posted:** 29 Aug 2017 07:48

This boat I'm looking at, beyond missing the skeg, the pintle may have been replaced (maybe not, as it was a Great Lakes boat until a few years ago). The SS and bolts all look good. The pintle pin on the rudder, inside the bearing, well, when I put my finger on the bottom of the pin and push up, the pin goes up inside the bearing. It "floats." The sound of the pin inside the rudder indicates that it is rather long, maybe 10" or so. I assume it has a "head" on the inside portion, as it stops dropping when flush with the bottom of the pintle plate. But should it be allowed to "float" up like that?? Is it somehow supposed to be pinned with a hitch pin or otherwise? You'd have to drill through the SS pintle plate to do it, then the pin wouldn't be able to rotate within the bushing. The problem is, if the pin floats up, there is nothing holding the rudder to the pintle plate in asmuch as the bushing is just sitting on the plate.

berwick · **Joined:** 21 Oct 2006 18:12 **Posts:** 327

The pintle pin should be welded to the pintle itself and should not move. There might be a bit of movement of the rudder up and down but it is quite small. Search on this site for pintle and you will see lots of pictures so it should make sense,

Richard

Maineiac · **Posted:** 29 Aug 2017 14:27

Aye search aye no find. I'll look at the Main Website.

So is it a tack weld from the underside? I picture a 1" pin, about 10" long, with a flat head on top, that feeds down through the bushing into the pintle plate. When I push from under the plate, above the cutout in the rudder, the 1" pin freely moves up. It seems the kind of weld you are talking about would be almost impossible. But I don't have it in front of me and have to go look again. I just didn't like the free-floating pin that I could push up far enough to clear the bushing, and it would hang up a little if I tried.
Regards,

Maineiac · **Posted:** 29 Aug 2017 15:53

I know I'm talking to myself, here (repeated posts). I found all kinda pictures, but doesn't seem to jibe completely. I don't think the pintle or pin has been replaced. Could be, though. Flat pintle bar with a bushing sitting on it over a 1" hold in the bar, and a pin in the middle that I can access from underneath, just above the rudder cutout, and push upwards. No indication of corrosion, just a pin that goes up. I was "listening" to where I thought the pin was sounding as I pushed it up, and it seemed like it was quite high (10") up the rudder, BUT, that could've been the pin whacking on the inside of the rudder post. MAYBE there is a flat "head" on the inside at the top of the bushing to simply keep the pin from dropping? And no weld? Dammit, I don't want to have to haul all this apart on what seems to be a good pintle and solid rudder. Thing is, if it's a short as indicated in the photos I've seen, then if it bounced up, it might lodge on top of the bushing, which would be bad. Dammit. I just don't know.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 29 Aug 2017 16:06

OKAAAAAY . . . looked at more pitchas hereabouts. The skeg is missing in action and there is a "cutout" on the leading edge of the rudder that, if the "pintle replacement" thing I read is correct, is where the "plug" was cut out and never replaced after the pintle was replaced. I thought it all looked remarkably good to be a '79. Now I'm beginning to suspect yard monkey work. Not BAD work overall, just the floaty pin. I got to run down to the boat and have another look.

SO, what do YOU think of a pin that isn't welded to the pintle plate? It doesn't drop out, obviously, but it freely moves upward.

Velera · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2006 09:38 **Posts:** 656

What I would say is that your pintle is busted and you best take everything out while you on the hard and fix it right. Maybe someone did a mod to this boat, but it did not come from the factory the way you describe it.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 30 Aug 2017 06:08

Thank you, and I believe you're right. I was hoping there were several methods that Tartan used in this area to secure the rudder. The pintle all looks good, nice stainless, 4 welded bolt heads, clean install, but no indication whatsoever that the pin was ever welded. And the skeg was obviously mounted under the 4 bolts and pintle plate - the fiberglass remnant is there. No rudder movement, solid, no delam I can ascertain off the bat. Might even be a replacement rudder.

I guess we got us a project. Along with the bivalve-jammed centerboard. Thanks again.

berwick · **Joined:** 21 Oct 2006 18:12 **Posts:** 327

Also the pin is not that long, only about 4" or so and it defiantly needs to be secured with a weld otherwise the only thing stopping the rudder from swinging all over the place is where it goes through the rudder stuffing box - yikes!

Richard

puffcard · **Posted:** 30 Aug 2017 20:07

Here's a T37 rudder pintle that was reinforced with the bar stock.

Maineiac · **Posted:** 31 Aug 2017 09:04

Ooooo. Pintle porn. Thank you. So HERE I see a drill-through into the pintle pin thru the bar stock, a pin, and what looks like a weld/heat job to secure the little pin. Or it's peened off on both ends?

I don't understand the stock sitting under that assembly, though. Looks like two bars sitting on a short piece (actually, 3 pieces) of sheet material.

The reason I thought the pintle pin might be longer on this boat is, when I kick it up with my finger, it seems to sound quite high inside the rudder stock. It is contained by the bushing, so in order for it to strike the side of the stock, it would have to be long enough to reach it at an angle, since I'm being careful not to lodge it on top of the bushing while playing with it.

I wonder if . . . there is such a thing as a high speed bit that could get me through bar stock and pintle pin by hand and drive in a pin to secure the thing and peen it off somehow? That would . . . eh, have to replace the skeg anyway, which affixes on top of the pintle bar assembly.

Am I making any sense here? I have just enough info now to tell me I have to pull the whole thing apart anyway. Here's hoping there isn't a big chunk of granite just under the dirt below the rudder. No lift in the yard, just a hydraulic trailer, which means a float downriver when its time to get at the centerboard matters.

Oh, and what is the purpose of the hole in the pintle pin? If that rides inside the bushing, why have a hole in it?

Tartan37.com

pintle pin floats up

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