Need advice on purchase of T38

Allanlowery · **Joined:** 20 Jul 2014 02:18 **Posts:** 29

Hi, I am a brand new member and a brand new sailor as well.
I am currently in the market for either T37 or T38
Everything I hear about Tartan I love, but I don't know about the boat I am looking at.
I was in contract on the T38 and then stopped when the surveyor found corrosion issues in 5 of the 11 bolts. 5 looked original 1" bolts while it looked as though 6 had been replaced with 1 1/8" bolts that looked relatively new. No information from previous owner who was said to have passed away, no paperwork on any bolt repairs.
All that being said the boat looks in very good condition and had only minor problems otherwise that the surveyor found.
I feel very concerned about keel repairs with no paperwork and 5 existing bolts where the surveyor could stick his knife blade in right above the nut 1/4" to 3/8".
My question is any way to tell how keel was repaired?
How much for a new keel properly made and installed?
I have been looking for a good T37 or T38 but I live on the West Coast and with delivery cost my selections are not that great.
I would really appreciate advice from someone!
Thanks!
Allan

Down2TheC · **Posted:** 22 Sep 2014 20:06

I'm not sure having keel bolts replaced is a problem if it was done right. We had some freeze damage to our keel and had it sent to Mars in Canada (who made our keels) for repair. They cut out the area around the bolt and reforge a new bolt in place. Good as new.

The only thing that would perhaps be a detractor would be if they cut out bolts and patched them back in place with epoxy/glass rather than reforging lead around the new bolts. That should be readily apparent if the boat is on the dry.

But if the nuts are tight, the caulking around the nuts is in place, the joint looks sound (forms a small hairline at the attachment point every year, especially the leading edge... that's normal if there's no caulking to deal with expansion) you should be fine.

Of course you can trade the keel concerns for one of the other versions.

If you did have to rework a keel, ours went to Mars for the one keel bolt replacement for about $8k not including the yard bill for removal/install. There would never be a reason to get a brand new one unless you wanted a redesign. (Mars also sells a kit to chop off a couple feet and add wings to keep the weight but reduce the draft.)

Lots of fun info on their site. http://marskeel.com/production/
So maybe you want to take a second look at that other tartan? I can measure my bolts if it helps. The look to be all the same size but I never really paid much attention. Here's a pic, you can see the straggler all cockeyed. (and frankly, I thought we had 10 keel bolts? 4 pairs, one forward, one aft.) Ours is #299 from 1981 for comparison. Perhaps the design changed over the years. Fin keel was only 20% of the T37s leaving the factory.

Down2TheC · **Posted:** 22 Sep 2014 20:11

Verified... 10 bolts. Here's what a properly repaired keel looks like when it gets back from Mars.

Allanlowery · **Joined:** 20 Jul 2014 02:18 **Posts:** 29

Wow, that was a quick and comprehensive reply, with very helpful pictures and a resource immediately to go to!
I'm really impressed and can see how owning an older boat with a community website like this is really going to be nice!

Thanks again and I will let you know what Marskeel says!
Allan

Down2TheC · **Posted:** 23 Sep 2014 07:30

No problem, and for what it's worth I've never seen any corrosion on my bolts, but I'm in fresh water. Also if you need someone to shuttle a boat from one coast to the other... (dammit... forgot about that work thing. Always getting in the way of my sailing)

Velera · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2006 09:38 **Posts:** 656

I have a deep fin keel (which is often called the T38) that I bought on the West Coast and sailed to Maine. I have had it for 22 years and sailed the heck out of it, but never had an issue with the keel bolts other than tightening the one under the mast a couple times. No problems. Really hard to imagine that stainless bolts would have that much corrosion---I have never heard of that problem elsewhere in Tartans or seen it in the yards with any boats. Did someone use mild steel bolts there? That should be easy to test. There are a number of ways to install new keel bolts if that is really necessary. I do not think you need to send it to Canada to get that done. I have seen rectangular keel sections removed and new bolts embedded in epoxy in the metal. Hardened epoxy with adhesive high density filler is going to be stronger than the bottom of your boat that is holding the keel up. Just never heard that any of this was necessary on a Tartan. You should be able to find a decent Tartan on the West Coast even though there may be fewer choices. As you are probably aware, a disproportionate number of the deep fin keel model were sent there.

Allanlowery · **Joined:** 20 Jul 2014 02:18 **Posts:** 29

Thanks for your reply as well!
I think I will not go back to this T38.
I am intent on finding a good condition Tartan however!
Thanks again!

conch · **Joined:** 21 Jan 2010 12:57 **Posts:** 168

I've got the centerboard Tartan 37, the shoal draft of which suits what I do with the boat better than would the full keel version. That said, I'd love to have the deep keel boat when doing blue water sailing. The "tracking" is better and the boat would go to weather a bit more strongly with the deep keel. Yeah the bolts are an issue, but so is the board. It all depends on what you do with the boat. On the mid-Atlantic and south Florida seaboard and the Bahamas, there's just too much "thin" water for the deep keel, IMHO. West coast or the Antilles, I'd go for it.
"Aurora" #253

alpinista · **Posted:** 26 Sep 2014 17:46

Yachtworld.com has two Tartan 38s listed in Seattle, both asking $50,000. I have Betty Lou, a T38 that we purchased 6 years ago in Seattle. No keel issues with Betty Lou, and I wouldn't trade that deep fin for a centerboard for sailing out here on the West coast.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Ta ... CXrNEspLcE

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Ta ... CXsg0spLcE

Allanlowery · **Joined:** 20 Jul 2014 02:18 **Posts:** 29

I went to Seattle and checked out the 2 Tartans mentioned at about 50k
I then re looked at the Tartan 38 with the keel bolt issues and decided to buy her.
Thanks for all of your input!
It really helped me out in my decision!
I am now a new Tartan owner!
Thanks again!
Allan

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