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 Post subject: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2014 15:01 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
A few years ago I replaced both front chocks with bigger ones which help when putting on chafe protection. But when hooking into my mooring, the anchor shaft gets in the way of the starboard chock (I use both sides). Also apparently most line breakage in hurricanes (according to US boat) happens at the chock or from the chock to the cleat. So my thought would be to remove the chock from the equation by removing the cleats from where they are now, cut out the front 2' of toe rail and mount the cleats more to the outboard side and forward a few inches more inches. This way I can attach the mooring line (or snubbers when at anchor) direct to the cleats to eliminate the chocks. There might be a small bend of the rope where it goes over where the toerail was but this would be a heck of a lot less than the two 90 degree turns at the chock. I got this idea from some of the more modern boats that do this (Hallberg Rassy, Hunter etc). Thoughts? Is this crazy talk to modify it? Am I missing something that I should be considering?

Richard


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2014 16:27 
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 656
Well I would look carefully at Hallberg Rassey as they make thoughtfully designed and well constructed boats, and they also engineer the heck out of them when you look below. I have not found that in Beneteaus and Hunters I have delivered. Like other delivery skippers, I eventually refused to deliver them. My thought is that in our Tartans, the chock is part of a system to distribute the shock load from anchor or mooring and I would be reluctant to put all the load in one place (on the cleat) without a whole lot of reinforcement below to distribute the load. In anchoring and mooring, I think folks tend not to realize that these are [systems [/u]and not individual components. This is where anchor marketers claim their anchor "won't drag like the others"---a preposterous claim as dragging obviously is as contingent on competent setting of the anchor, specific bottom conditions, decent amounts of chain for caternery, rode length, etc. Personally, I would not chop up a Tartan because many of them have been extensively and successfully cruised in their present configuration and I know I would not buy one with a lot of major mods. I spent a couple days in an open roadstead with 4-6 foot waves in 25 to 32 kts without a problem with nothing really special--I moved the snubber to distribute the chafe, but that is all. Seems extreme to modify the boat to accommodate chafe. But it is your boat.

Ray


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014 09:16 
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
Well, not sure about it being designed for distributing the shock load because my boat only had washers holding on the cleats, one of the first things I did upon getting the boat was to install large backing plates.
I suppose the line taking two 90 degree turns to go forward would cause some friction and lessen the load slightly on the cleat, still doesn't mean it is great idea. I think it was installed this way due to ergonomics and ease of installation. If I were to move it outboard I would have lots of bracing for the cleat but where the line leaves the boat is further back than the chock and the line may rub a bit more on the fibreglass as it goes forward. I have seen some boats modified like this but not one of ours,

Richard


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014 13:14 
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Joined: 27 Oct 2006 10:32
Posts: 827
I'm afraid I'm with Valera on this one. I would think it would compromise the re-sale value a bit plus the toe rail is part of the hull to deck joint where the bolts that hold down the toe rail are tapped into an aluminum plate that secures the hull/deck. If you were to remove the toe rail, you would need to re-secure this joint in a similar manner plus now you would have an exposed edge of the fiberglass deck which is typically covered by the stainless rub rail. How do you think it would look? I bet it wouldn't look as finished, but that's just me.......


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014 14:30 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
Yes too make it look right might be a problem, still thinking about it, I notice the Tartan 3400 doesn't go through chocks but is direct.

Richard


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014 11:01 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
Well I have decided to press with the idea with some modifications. I will just remove the present cleats, change them to the Herreshoff type and mount them (lots of backing) on blocks to the same level as the toe rail and a bit further outboard as well. This way I will not have to mess with the rail, deck joint etc and it will still allow a straight run for my snubber or mooring lines. I am going to leave the chocks which will still be able to be used by crossing over from the opposite side cleat so I'll be able to double up on all lines. I'll post pictures when complete,

Richard


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014 13:42 
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Joined: 27 Oct 2006 10:32
Posts: 827
Not too bad of a compromise. You could put a stainless rubstrake on top of the rail to keep the wood from being worn down


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014 16:21 
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
Hey good idea, I'll see how much it rubs first,

Richard


 
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 Post subject: Re: Crazy idea?
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014 07:46 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
Well finally finished the modification (note the boat is still under the tarp!). I used 5/8" ply (holes oversized and potted) followed by 1/4" aluminium for backing plus lots of thickened West epoxy. I decided to use the old cleat as a center one which will give me more options (wrap chain around to pull out anchor, extra lines etc) and backed with the same material. Will put a rub strake or two where needed after I moor and tie to the dock to see where required. The biggest surprise out of all this was how light the old cleats were (2-3 oz maybe?) and hollow. They have with stood some very high winds so they work but they do not give confidence when you pick them up! The ones I replaced them with were the 12" models from NewFound metals, they feel strong enough at about 4 lbs each.


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