Cabin Heat

alpinista · **Posted:** 31 Oct 2011 00:21

Hi All -

Betty Lou is a 4-season boat, with intentions to spend a lot of time cruising north of Vancouver Island. Her current cabin heater is a Cozy Cabin propane fired bulkhead mount, just forward of the starboard settee. Its rated at 6000 BTU. When the outside air temperature is 30 degrees, if I run the propane heater for a couple of hours, and augment that with a pair of 1500 watt ceramics, I can get the upper half of the cabin to about 67 degrees, but at deck sole were still in the 40s. Its time for an upgrade.

My ideal criteria are: simple system, low electrical budget, modest fuel consumption, drive you out of the cabin at freezing, and reasonably comfortable into the teens.

The simplest upgrade would be a Dickinson P-12000 bulkhead mounted propane fireplace. Its rated at 9700 BTU and lists for about $1300. My worry is that is won't be enough of an increase in heat output to do the job.

The next option would be to go to a diesel-fired bulkhead mounted fireplace like the Dickinson Newport. It's rated at 16250 BTU, and is less expensive, at $1100. It will run with no electricity, although it does have a draft assist fan and a circulation fan, and burns 1.5 to 3.2 gals/day. The only problem with this option is that it requires at least 48 inches of stack, which would put it a couple of feet above the coach top.

Of course, there is just no room for a floor standing stove in our salons. I thought of replacing our Force 10 propane range with a Dickinson diesel range, but while Im sure that would be great in the winter months, cooking in the sumer would be pretty uncomfortable. Plus, the 4 inch stack would have to angle forward and take over the starboard dorade box.

That brings us to diesel forced air furnaces. Their main problem is 3 inch ducting, a major problem if you put the furnace in the lazarette. I think you could rout the ducts under the galley stove and reefer, and behind or above the starboard water tank, but would have to drill holes in several bulkheads, something I don't want to do. And thee is no way to run them through the bilge. I was looking at the Wallas units, which you could shoehorn into one of the hanging lockers, but then you need to do intake and exhaust out the cabin top (not to mention loosing a hanging locker).

Finally we come to the hydronic systems. Kind of a mixed bag here... definitely the most expensive, with the most complexity and highest energy budget, but easy to plumb, since you just run 3/4 inch hose. And you get the added benefit of diesel fired domestic hot water. But I've read a lot of stories of finicky operation, outright failures, and expensive repairs and maintenance.

So what have you all done to solve the drive me out of the cabin conundrum? The first mate says she needs a bit more winter comfort before she'll sign on for much winter cruising, so its a problem that must be solved.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Tortuga's Lie · **Joined:** 27 Oct 2006 10:32 **Posts:** 827

Interesting dilemma,
First thing I would do is to add insulation everywhere you can get to. Have you dropped the ceiling liner yet? You can add 1/2" rigid foam insulation there which would add R3.5. How about all of the hanging lockers? You can also secure clear plastic over the overhead hatches which is a huge heat loss. Plug the dorades. The louvered door to the anchor locker needs to be insulated if you haven't already done so.
Next, Are you looking for a heat source independent from shore power? I would stay away from propane for two reasons: one, propane gives off a lot of moisture and secondly, you wind up consuming quite a bit of the gas and that gets expensive and a pain to keep the bottles filled. Obviously the diesel would be a good choice for it's economy. The dickenson stove that you mention, the four foot stack can be removable and capped while underway, Right? But you still need to cut a huge hole through the deck, so that's the downside there.
I have heard good things about both Espar and Webasto heaters, but have no personal experience. If you go that direction, you'll need power for the forced air, so you'll need a generator or shore power.

Quite the conundrum!
Good luck,
Tom

Velera · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2006 09:38 **Posts:** 656

I have had a Wallas Forced air diesel heater for more than 15 years. It works very well to heat the boat in just about any conditions. I even used it in the tropics during a cruise to dry things out in the rain forest areas of Panama. One of the best things I put on my boat (next to the windlass). I ran the tubes as you describe. One runs behind the range and along the hull through the refrigerator unit then under the pilot berth to exit near the fresh water pump (tight fit but possible). The other tube exits under the range (you need heat near the companion way). The furnace unit is in the lazarette behind the starboard "dishpan" (so that I could have the exhaust intake on the stern). These units are not maintenance free, but they get the heat down on the floor where it needs to be and I would not be without it. I needed the unit in San Francisco when I was there and it really helps me extend the season here in Maine. Drilling the bulkheads does not appreciably weaken them. The folks at Scan Marine have been very good at providing advice and parts to keep the unit running all these years. I estimate I have put a couple thousand hours on mine. I strongly recommend forced air heat. Quiet, uses very little fuel or electricity. Scan Marine sells refurbished Wallas Units that I would suspect are as good as new ones. If you do the work yourself (simple) you probably are looking at $2K, but IMHO it is worth it.

alpinista · **Posted:** 08 Nov 2011 17:16

Thanks, Velera. I had a long discussion with Scan Marine yesterday about a Wallas furnace. I'm thinking that this is the way to go. I didn't relish the running of the vents, and sawing holes in the bulkheads for them, but am encouraged that you have done the job. I'm now trying to decide between the 30DT model and the 40DT. The salesman said he thought I could get by with the 30DT, and it has half the electrical budget of the 40. On the other hand, the 40 has 50% more BTU's at the top end and moves a LOT more air. Do you know which model Wallas you have?

Velera · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2006 09:38 **Posts:** 656

Mine is a 3000D (I think) and they don't make that one anymore---I can look up the output but I think it is essentially the 30 without some of the software improvements. They take 10 or 12 amps for a short time when starting up and you need to keep thge leads as short as possible. It has to be wired directly to the battery as the cool down portion of the cycle is critical. I use the day tank that came with mine as I find it easier to keep track of usage. Uses almost nothing in the way of fuel and electricity. Used it today.

It would probably require blocking some of the dorades and vents to heat the boat if it was below 30 degrees, but it has worked fine here in Maine. I just hauled my boat today. If you want some pictures of my installation, I could take them for you tomorrow as I am putting the boat to bed for the winter tomorrow.

I will help you with installation. It is straight forward. Drilling a round hole in your bulkheads does not compromise integrity of the structure.

Let me know if you want some pictures.

Ray

Ray

alpinista · **Posted:** 09 Nov 2011 18:50

Thanks, Velera, and I'd love to see some pics. I'm sue others will as well. That's part of what makes this site such a treasure (thanks, Tom!).

I think I'll go with the 30 DT, and then leave my Cozy Cabin propane heater in place for backup and below 30 degree days. Or I may even spring for a new Dickenson Propane fireplace to replace the Cozy Cabin.

Later,

JK

Celtic Lady · **Joined:** 05 Apr 2011 17:27 **Posts:** 66

When I bought Celtic Lady off of Lake Superior, she had a Cole Stove installed with a 3" chimey installed thru the cabin top. Like yours, it's installed just forward of the pilot berth and aft of the first hanging locker on the starboard side. I was told by the previous owner that they sailed out to Isle Royle National Park a lot and it did the trick when anchoring, but you had to crack a port or two to maintain fresh air. It burns charcoal, wood, and pellets. Wet a lot of compliments on our stove, but to be honest we have not used it as due to my CPAP machine we try to plug into shore-power when cruising (will get a generator someday).

Anyway, I'm wondering if a small battery-operated fan pointed downward near your stove would help distribute the heat to the cabin sole? It would be worth a try and cheaper than installing a new system.

Tartan37.com

Cabin Heat

Who is online