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 Post subject: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017 12:03 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 183
Location: Maine/USVI
Please point me to where the flimsy companionway setup has been addressed, options, etc. The boards are barely 3/8". I've seen hinged doors, but that doesn't seem fully practical. Thank you.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017 20:01 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 23 Jun 2017 01:05
Posts: 27
I am also curious and was wondering how others might address the question. perhaps a more general, less boat model specific forum might offer insight from others that have ocean/heavy weather experiences to share. Any 'storm panel' you fabricate might also serve dual purpose as part of an emergency rudder? I discovered a massive three-part emergency rudder the previous owner of my 1979 Hull #135 had stowed in the lazarette. Haven't figured out how to install it yet, I also wonder if this is an option that was offered by Tartan? I'll post photos if I have time to dig in there again before I put the boat up for a couple months. btw, found a great alternator shop for a Balmar 91-10 100 amp alternator in Oakland, CA, for a few hundred bucks in not only works like new but looks brand new. Place is called Buchanan Alternators, easy to find, great staff, fast turn-around, less than one day for entire rebuild. I asked them to put together an extra alternator from spare parts that might serve as a very cheap cruising back-up.
Regards to all.
Timoko
Tartan 37 Hull #135
loving my deep fin keel

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Timoko
Tartan 37 Farallon Flyer
Hull # 135, deep fin keel
San Francisco Bay


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2017 06:27 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 183
Location: Maine/USVI
Thing is, I've never seen a boat this size, or even smaller, with such lightweight washboards in the companionway. Your "emergency rudder" seems quite interesting.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2017 07:29 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 520
Not sure what that we are all talking about the same thing. My T37 companionway boards are 5/8" thick solid teak boards with metal edges that fit into the grooves. I cannot imagine this not holding anything back that could possibly get in the cockpit. I have a sliding lock that can be put in place to keep them from being dislodged, but that is original as well, I think. I have seen some modifications of these doors by owners that give me the willies--especially the hinged doors that make the companionway look like and oversized cuckoo clock--this has to weaken and make the whole thing montrously inefficient if sort of salty-looking to non sailors. Tartans are getting to the age where many modifications have been done on most of them, but I think mine are original and I have sailed more than 25K miles on both coasts, Nova Scotia and Central America and never had a thought about a weakness there. I realize there is some armchair sailor books that talk about the need for some kind of a wall to keep a flooded cockpit from draining into your salon if you happen to get pooped (I have been in more than one force 8 gale in my T37 with no indication this was going to happen). I once had the late Olin Stephens on my boat and asked him about this design "flaw". He told me that he and the designers had talked about this. He asked me, "If you were pooped in a following sea, where would you want the water to be? Would you want it to be up here (in the cockpit) slowly draining out the 2" scupper drains while you wallowed, top heavy, in the rolling sea or would you want it to immediately get lower in the boat to stabilize it?" Yup--I get what he was thinking by leaving it out. My experience is that I would not want to carry a hot tub full of cold sea water high in the boat's cockpit. In my CG education, we were instructed in dynamic instability as I recall, and this seems like it could be a huge problem if the cockpit is full of water and does not empty pronto. It is nice to read all the old salts' cruising books, but after many years of being out there, I think that the authors (this one included) read too many of each others' books and develop ideas about what is "right" that just does not live up to the realities of being out there. Don't believe what I say either. Think about it for yourself.
Ray Durkee
T37 #373
Velera


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2017 07:41 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 183
Location: Maine/USVI
The washboards on my Bristol and Pearsons were on the order of 7/8 thick. A board. the washboards on what I'm looking at (a '79) are about 3/8" thick. I could knee one in half with little effort. That's all. Might keep out spray, wouldn't keep out a boarding wave.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2017 09:20 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 03 Jul 2017 11:52
Posts: 38
Velera wrote:
Not sure what that we are all talking about the same thing. My T37 companionway boards are 5/8" thick solid teak boards with metal edges that fit into the grooves. I cannot imagine this not holding anything back that could possibly get in the cockpit. I have a sliding lock that can be put in place to keep them from being dislodged, but that is original as well, I think. I have seen some modifications of these doors by owners that give me the willies--especially the hinged doors that make the companionway look like and oversized cuckoo clock--this has to weaken and make the whole thing montrously inefficient if sort of salty-looking to non sailors. Tartans are getting to the age where many modifications have been done on most of them, but I think mine are original and I have sailed more than 25K miles on both coasts, Nova Scotia and Central America and never had a thought about a weakness there. I realize there is some armchair sailor books that talk about the need for some kind of a wall to keep a flooded cockpit from draining into your salon if you happen to get pooped (I have been in more than one force 8 gale in my T37 with no indication this was going to happen). I once had the late Olin Stephens on my boat and asked him about this design "flaw". He told me that he and the designers had talked about this. He asked me, "If you were pooped in a following sea, where would you want the water to be? Would you want it to be up here (in the cockpit) slowly draining out the 2" scupper drains while you wallowed, top heavy, in the rolling sea or would you want it to immediately get lower in the boat to stabilize it?" Yup--I get what he was thinking by leaving it out. My experience is that I would not want to carry a hot tub full of cold sea water high in the boat's cockpit. In my CG education, we were instructed in dynamic instability as I recall, and this seems like it could be a huge problem if the cockpit is full of water and does not empty pronto. It is nice to read all the old salts' cruising books, but after many years of being out there, I think that the authors (this one included) read too many of each others' books and develop ideas about what is "right" that just does not live up to the realities of being out there. Don't believe what I say either. Think about it for yourself.
Ray Durkee
T37 #373
Velera


Thanks for sharing the insight from your experience and from Stephens visit! Wow! Any chance you have a pic of how the original boards look?

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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2017 11:30 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 183
Location: Maine/USVI
How wide are the grooves the metal sides of the boards fit into? The ones on this boat would only accommodate a 3/8" board, but there is no metal trim. Metal trim would make sense. The boards look original, but who knows? I was more interested in security, but I can understand Mr. Stephen's assertions. Personally, in all but a few circumstances, I think I'd druther not have the water going below. But I see the rationale.

Based on what I've seen, plastic dorade cowls vs. stainless, different accoutrements, etc., I'd say there's a wide range of fits and finishes on these boats. Just like Pearson and others.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017 14:09 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 23 Jun 2017 01:05
Posts: 27
I was surprised when I first removed my boards, they are surprisingly very thin also. I estimate they are 3/8 thick, maybe 7/16th. No metal edges or tracks and side grooves don't look like they would fit anything thicker.

I briefly thought about laminating them with a couple braces overlapping seams to strengthen them but you'd have to retain the thin edges or modify the frame rails to accept thicker boards.

They don't offer much security, it appears they would be easy for an intruder to punch or kick through.

Mine's a 1979 fin keel, hull #135.

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Timoko
Tartan 37 Farallon Flyer
Hull # 135, deep fin keel
San Francisco Bay


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017 17:21 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Jul 2008 12:51
Posts: 232
I had doors made for the companionway ... they look great,,, they are never locked. Storm wise ,,, I use my original companionway boards,,, they will hold the water when you get it a big blow.... You will have more trouble than that if you find yourself in seas so rough that the waves are breaching that far into the cockpit.

If you are that worried about it and doing a LONG passage beef up the companionway... but by the time you get that much pressure to breach the original boards you will have the bimini and dodger gone and anything in the cockpit ... and most likely a knock down to the spreaders.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Companionway, heavy seas and security
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017 18:33 
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Tactictian

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 132
Ray's boat was made after the change. Our boat, #324, has the 1/2" teak plywood drop boards. In our case we have a piece of 1/2" dark Lexan for the bottom board and that takes you a bit above the top of the seats. Pretty much nothing is going to break that bottom board. As far as unwanted entry is concerned, you could break the plywood but there are plenty of ways to get into a boat. The old saying....locks only keep your friends out. our friends the Andersons (#486) have the thick drop boards and the wide grooves to accommodate them.


 
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