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 Post subject: Propane stove
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2016 11:31 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Well, I went about tackling one of my "to do" list items: refill or exchange CNG tanks. They are old and rusty, so knew if I could find a place, I would probably have to get new ones anyway. They aren't empty, but I wanted to take care of checking ahead of taking off for cruising so I could figure out the process (I'd read it was hard to find). Turns out, it doesn't even exist anymore around here. I'm in the Tampa, FL area, and the places you find on those lists everyone posts to message boards are all long gone. There are multiple vehicle fill stations though. I found a link with instructions on how to build an adapter to fill the tanks up at service stations for CNG vehicles, but then I'm back to building the adapter, buying new tanks, and still trying not to blow myself up at an unmanned service station. A lot of expense for something that's only going to work when we're in the US.

Time to switch to propane. I'm sure there is a conversion for my old CNG stove (Safgas/Seaward 3132), but at a glance, there is a lot of old and rusty parts in there. I would want to totally rebuild. All this leading up to, I'm thinking I just need to get a new stove and start from scratch. Force 10 has models that will fit on Defender for $1500.00.

I searched other posts and saw some one mention model # 63354. I also saw someone mention model # 60351 (which appears to be nearly the same as 63351 but without glass on the oven door). It is slightly larger than 63354. Which have most people gotten? Any pros and cons? Other brands to consider?

I'm also going to need to build a propane locker. I read the detailed instructions on the owners site for building one under the port side of the helm seat for a 10 lb tank. I also saw posts where people had built them in the lazarette. I'm definitely a fan of going with the detailed instructions. Has anyone with the locker in the helm seat also built a place or found a place to store a second spare tank? Anything else I should be considering? Thanks for any help. Zach

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2016 11:36 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
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Thinking about all this is making me want to go with a solar oven! Smile Someone please tell me this isn't as difficult as I'm thinking it's going to be.

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016 16:31 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
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Buying the model 63358 Euro compact, one size up from the smallest 63354 Euro sub-compact. Took a bunch of measurements and looks like it will fit. If someone knows different, tell me quick. About to click the "buy" button. Smile

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2016 06:44 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 11 Nov 2015 07:49
Posts: 9
Location: Sandusky, Ohio
Zach

I feel your pain. I have likely been through most of the same process as you. Building a propane locker seems like a lot of work (I haven't tried it).

I did find a place called Corp Brothers who will sell you a tank (not new but seems to be re certified) for about $240 that is filled and shipped to your door. I was skeptical about getting a filled tank shipped but they did it and I have the tank in my car ready to take to the boat. Since they are re-certifying tanks I am thinking about shipping them my old tank to see if they can re-certify it? I haven't asked yet but I think I am going to try. Corp Brothers

A rig to refill the tanks did come with my boat. I didn't find it until I got the tank from Corp Brothers. I think I may try to just fill the old tank on my own. I am good for now but will consider those two options next. There is a video on youtube about filling using the rig. Hope this helps and let us know what you wind up doing.

I have no connection to Corp Brothers but have talked to them on the phone a good bit.

Cheers
Kevin

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Isobel
Tartan 37c
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2016 14:37 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Hey Kevin, thanks for the info. I had seen Corp Brothers and thought about buying new tanks, but our cruising plans are to leave the US for extended periods in the future. So, knowing we would eventually have the expense of switching, we went ahead and pulled the trigger. I have a Force 10 model # 63358 Euro Compact on the way and also have most of the equipment from the instructions in the Tech Resources for the locker on the way too. I'll keep everyone updated on how it goes. The locker instructions seem pretty daunting, and I'm having trouble finding that fiberglass pipe so far. I may have found a 12" OD, 11" ID that I may get because I'm using the Trident 14000011T tank which is only 8 7/8" diameter. Only worry is that I'll only have 1/2" instead of an 1 1/2" for the top flange to drill through without splitting. If anyone has an opinion there, would love to hear.

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2016 14:42 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Also, if anyone wants my old stove, tanks, and regulator, $200 gets it all. Local pickup only in Cortez, FL. The stove and oven work perfectly as well as the regulator. The tanks are empty (I know because I just spent the last few days emptying them by way of burning the CNG with the stove on the boat). I emptied them because they are old and wouldn't feel comfortable giving them away full. The tanks are probably trash, but if someone wanted a project they could probably sand them down, repaint, and get recommissioned.


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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2016 19:42 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Parts have been coming in! Trying to get myself psyched up to cut big holes in Holiday. A couple of notes/observations so far:
1. It looks to me that the Force 10 American Compact (63353) would have fit and maybe not have to shim the gimbal points narrower. The Euro Compact (63358) only different dimension is width, and it looks like I'm going to have to bring the gimbal points in a half inch or so. Was just nervous to order the 63353 as it was very close but may have been an exact fit. Will report back when stove arrives tomorrow.
2. The fiberglass pipe is a bit hard to find. Didn't get anywhere by calling the local utility, but I live in a big town. It's not something you can just click and order on line either. Once I called http://allplastics-fiberglass.com/ though, no problem. They shipped it right out. $150.00 plus $50 shipping to Florida.
3. The Worthington 11# steel cylinder seems to be the best fit because of it's narrow width. I won't have to remove the Bomar plate to refill since it fits through the 10.5" opening of just the lid. The Lite Cylinder composite listed in the instructions in the Tech Resources doesn't seem to exist anymore. Steel may rust, where as aluminum and composite don't, but at Home Depot the Worthington is only $55. So, I can buy 4 of them if they rust before I get to the aluminum price. The small size for 11# volume tipped the scales for me so that I don't have to remove screws to pull out the tank.
4. The Seaward regulator from the instructions doesn't seem to exist anymore. You basically have the Trident tank mount or wall mount to choose from. I chose the tank mount so that the pressure gauge is visible right next to the tank. The wall mount would have the gauge in the box on top of the regulator and out of sight without modifying the setup. To keep my gauge, regulator, solenoid from being too long and needing a really long box, I bought a 90 degree 3/8 to 3/8 pipe fitting to replace the straight fitting one that came with the Trident regulator to point the solenoid downward. So my box is planned to be 5X5X5 instead of the 3X3X12 in the instructions. There are, of course, tons of different ways to change this with using different fittings.
5. The instructions mention the 15' propane hose as being 1/4" ID, but the Mr Heater model mentioned is 3/8" ID. I noticed when the hose arrived. However, it seems like 3/8" hose with 3/8" fittings is correct. So, the 1/4" may have been a typo?EDIT: 15' is definitely too short. I went with 25' and ordered this one that is 1/4" ID. So, I'll have to get fittings that go from 3/8 to 1/4 for the solenoid and then back from 1/4 to 3/8 for the stove. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002L ... UTF8&psc=1
6. The 15' propane hose from the instructions has 3/8" pipe fittings (male on one end, female on the other). I'm planning to go with the male straight into the solenoid (instead of using the pipe to flare fitting that comes with the regulator). The female pipe fitting on the other end doesn't help you connect to Force 10 from what I've read. I read that you need a 3/8" female flare (instead of pipe). 3/8" male pipe to 3/8" female flare fitting doesn't seem to exist. So, I'm using two fittings: a 3/8" male pipe to 3/8" male flare followed by a 3/8" female flare to 3/8" female flare swivel fitting. Possibly there exists a 15' hose that has female flares on both ends. That would be ideal as the Trident regulator comes with a fitting also that is male pipe to male flare (I'm not using due to hose). All that mumbo jumbo will make more sense to you once you get into it. 2 days ago, I would have though all that was a foreign language.EDIT: see above edit. changed hose and will use some of these fittings but will need others too.
7. The vapor tight fitting is labelled on the packaging for "1/4" and 1/8" ID" hose. Of course the instructions did list the Mr Heater hose as being 1/4" but it is actually 3/8". The 3/8" hose fits and on the West Marine listing it says "accepts LPG hoses up to 5/8"OD". So, I think I'm ok there.EDIT: switched to 1/4" hose so I'm in line with the label on the packaging now. Hopefully it's correct. Also, there aren't any instructions. I'm guessing the large part of the fitting with the constricting part goes outside the box on the locker and the movable washer is tightened down from inside the box? The instructions in the Tech section also don't mention how to seal the fitting itself. I'm guessing 4200?
8. I couldn't figure out in the Misc. section of the instructions what the 12" pigtail was for. It may be something needed for the Seaward regulator that I didn't get. Or maybe I'll find I need it later. Will report.EDIT: I returned this piece when I sent back the Mr Heater hose. As far as I can tell, it's not needed for my setup

That's it for now. I'm hoping to have everything gathered and do the whole project next week. This will be the most complex project I've ever taken on. I'll post up problems/thoughts as I go. Any tips anyone has that has done this before, feel free to let me know. Zach


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Zach Duncan
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Last edited by zdunc on 16 Sep 2016 18:21, edited 2 times in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2016 16:30 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Stove came in, and if your boat is exactly like mine with the Safgas/Seaward 3132 and 1/2" wooden blocks on each side to mount the gimbal brackets, the Force 10 American Compact (63353) would fit without modification to the width of the gimbal/stove area. I purchased the Force 10 Euro Compact (63358), and I had to add 3/4" pieces (I used some spare Star board I had around) to each side plus the 1/2" wood blocks that were there (see pic). It is worth considering going with the smaller unit like we did or even the smaller Euro Subcompact if you are thinking that less oven volume will mean less propane usage. It wasn't too difficult adding the extra pieces of Star board. We are very happy with the installation. One other thing, as far as height of the unit, make sure to place the gimbal points low enough that the slide up counter will still fit over the top of the stove. The grill rack on the Force 10s comes up a bit higher than on my old stove. I made my measurements from the lowest little wooden trim pieces and it just fits. You might want to even start from a half inch lower or something.


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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


Last edited by zdunc on 16 Sep 2016 18:23, edited 1 time in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2016 13:27 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
The locker is built. I ended up using 3/4" for the bottom piece too instead of the 1/2" like in the instructions. The scrap piece of 3/4 I bought for the top flange was better than the 1/2" scrap the guy gave me, and I have the extra room in my locker. I used the 1/2 to build the box (my box ended up being 3.5" deep, 5" wide and 7" tall). For anyone, like me, that has never looked for marine plywood, like other things in this project, it is not easy to find. When you do find it, they want to sell you a full piece, 4'X8', which is expensive for the good stuff (over $100 per sheet). I didn't find any exceptions to that in the Bradenton, FL area. What I found, was a place called the Teak Hut in between Bradenton and Sarasota, that sold me some scrap pieces. $30 for an odd shaped 3/4" big enough to build top and bottom and gave me an old piece of 1/2" that was the only thing they had in that size. I used a sawzall for cutting the pipe and the wood because I don't have a jig saw. Get or borrow a jig saw. I sanded for hours getting my pieces the right shape. 3/4" marine ply is very tough. I'm borrowing a jig saw to cut through the helm seat. And by the way, when you get 5200 all around the side of the bottom piece, have your fiberglass pipe laying on its side when you try to get the piece in place for screwing it in. I tried with the pipe sitting up thinking the 5200 would kind of hold it in place, but fresh 5200 is viscous, and the bottom will fall right through and get 5200 everywhere (that really made me happy and not curse at all...) Also, SS wood screws aren't readily available, only zinc. I'm sure you could order on the internet. I got mine at a specialty marine place called Marine Surplus. Polyurethane paint is only available at marine stores. I'm sure most of you already knew this, but if there are other novices reading the instructions, I'll save you some time. I ended up going with the Rustoleum marine primer and top side paint with Alkyd instead of polyurethane. It's less than half the price, and I read good reviews. If you are going to attempt this, it takes a while. I'm not skilled at this type of work, and it's taken me over 40 hours so far. If you are skilled, I'm sure you could do it quicker. Will update on the rest as I go next week. Check out my blog post on it here. http://funonholiday.com/index.php/2016/ ... ke-a-boss/


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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


Last edited by zdunc on 16 Sep 2016 18:29, edited 2 times in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: Propane stove
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2016 17:18 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 29 Jun 2013 09:23
Posts: 13
Sorry I wasn't here in time... I went thru the conversion 2 years ago. I opted for the conversion kit. Our stove was in great condition so it worked for us.

I made a box, in lieu of the single tank tube method. I can fit 2 worthington tanks and regulator/solenoid stuff, as well as 2 1b tanks (pvc sleeve) for the barbq. I have simple tube insulation as separators for the tanks. All quite snug. Same location as yours.

I also had the same problem w/ filling tanks. I did the conversion on the hard in P.R.

I'm amazed how much these tanks last. I go 4-6 months on the 2 tanks, usually w/ plenty in the second tank to spare.

Good job, great pics.


 
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