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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2021 15:40 
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Midshipman

Joined: 06 Sep 2020 10:08
Posts: 72
OK. Either I totally mis-remembered our rudder situation or the near-empty fuel tank makes a bigger difference than I expected. Rado is right: about 4" of our rudder top is out of the water. I'll check again after we fill up the diesel tank this weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2021 19:21 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 17 Oct 2021 23:04
Posts: 16
Well thanks for the timely response madmike. Timely because today I actually opened up the small port where the fuel measurement device is mounted on my diesel tank and to my surprise it is completely full. I had assumed that it was near empty because on the sea trial the broker had brought a 5 gal can of fuel to add; but, it turns out they just thought it was low because the fuel gauge wasn't working and wanted to be sure. I was busy with the surveyor and didn't really notice what was going on.

So, your rudder is 4 inches above the water surface with an empty fuel tank and a bunch of stuff on the stern and probably a good deal of gear stowed below. Mine is 6 inches above the water surface with a full fuel tank and a mere 100 lbs added to the bow/ fordeck and nothing on the stern. I'm hoping jfalsone is right and things will balance out but am still a little undecided about ordering anchor chain. Yes, please do update me after you fill your fuel tank. Thanks again.

Rado37


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2021 22:21 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 634
Did you repower or relocate the waterheater? I think my 3JH4E Yanmar is about 100lbs lighter than the old W50 and the boat is a tiny bit higher. I agree that the mechanics and math of your weight in front do not add up to this result. I carry just a 35lb anchor in front with 240' (way too much chain--about 400lbs right there--left over from Central American cruising days) of BBB chain--I carry three other anchors, but only used one of them once in 29 years and maybe 25k miles--I am impressed that folks seem to feel they need this kind of weight in a hook). My boat is a deep fin keel version so the construction of the keel weight is probably much different now that I think of it. I have really never noticed excessive hobby horsing in chop, but I have not put a lot of weight in either end in radar arches, davits or elegant bow metal work.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2021 20:22 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 17 Oct 2021 23:04
Posts: 16
Velera wrote:
Did you repower or relocate the waterheater? I think my 3JH4E Yanmar is about 100lbs lighter than the old W50 and the boat is a tiny bit higher. I agree that the mechanics and math of your weight in front do not add up to this result. I carry just a 35lb anchor in front with 240' (way too much chain--about 400lbs right there--left over from Central American cruising days) of BBB chain--I carry three other anchors, but only used one of them once in 29 years and maybe 25k miles--I am impressed that folks seem to feel they need this kind of weight in a hook). My boat is a deep fin keel version so the construction of the keel weight is probably much different now that I think of it. I have really never noticed excessive hobby horsing in chop, but I have not put a lot of weight in either end in radar arches, davits or elegant bow metal work.


Hi Valera, thanks for the input.It has been repowered and a Kuuma water heater installed aft the engine. But, these were done well before I got her. The only changes since have been the 100 lbs added to the fordeck bow area with the Rocna, bow roller, and windlass. Prior to this the rudder was exactly what I would expect, about 2 inches out of the water. I just watched an episode of Sailing Soulianis and they're bow set-up appears virtually identical.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2022 15:33 
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Midshipman

Joined: 06 Sep 2020 10:08
Posts: 72
The plot thickens:

Yesterday I watched the rudder as my wife, who obviously has a modest weight, walked from the tip of the bow to the transom. Whens she was at the bow, the trailing edge of the rudder was 3/4" higher than the "normal" waterline. When she stood at the stern pushpit, it was about 3/4" inch lower down in the water.

Adding 40 gallons of diesel to the fuel tank sunk the rudder about 1".

Bottom line: the boat has more weight-distribution pitch sensitivity than I would have expected. And I'm not going to stress out about it, even though we might have the most end-heavy T37's of the fleet.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2022 20:46 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 17 Oct 2021 23:04
Posts: 16
Thanks for the post madmike. The T37 is definitely weight sensitive that's for sure. I completely cleaned out my anchor locker and v-berth lockers and it does sit a bit better. Going to be adding chain tomorrow so will see how it goes. As an aside, I had left a voice message with Tartan Yachts but didn't really expect a reply after some of the comments here on the forum. But, today, to my surprise, I got a call and had a real nice chat with one of their guys. He says not to worry about the weight issue, that they were in fact designed this way. He himself has just bought a T37. I asked him if it were possible that mine was one of a few that were built light as jfalsone suggested may be the case. He didn't think so but tomorrow is going to dig up the file on my hull # and scan and forward it to me. Sweet.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022 16:32 
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Midshipman

Joined: 03 Jul 2017 11:52
Posts: 66
My boat looks about the same as the photos, about 3-4" rudder above water at the dock. However underway, sailing or motoring stern squats and rudder is down at least as much. Has anyone else noticed that?

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#66 Splash


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022 20:31 
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Skipper

Joined: 13 Feb 2011 21:19
Posts: 286
Location: Canyon Lake, TX
At about 6 knots, Impetuous has a stern wave that covers the point of the stern. I don't think it's a squat. I think that's where the stern wave ends up under motion.

At about 9 knots tho, she definitely squats. Especially if you're being towed by the CG. Shocked Shocked

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Wayne
Master and Commander of the Sailing Vessel Impetuous
Rider of Waleli Honda 1800 VTX (sold)
Subservient to no man except SWMBO
Any day without dock lines is a GOOD day!


 
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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022 09:08 
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Midshipman

Joined: 03 Jul 2017 11:52
Posts: 66
WayneH wrote:
At about 6 knots, Impetuous has a stern wave that covers the point of the stern. I don't think it's a squat. I think that's where the stern wave ends up under motion.

At about 9 knots tho, she definitely squats. Especially if you're being towed by the CG. Shocked Shocked


Thanks WayneH, similar to my experience, minus the CG tow Chuckle

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 Post subject: Re: Yikes! Rudder out of water another 3 or 4 inches
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2022 21:26 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 17 Oct 2021 23:04
Posts: 16
Lunacy 198 wrote:
Sweet is right. If the file from Tartan has interesting info on your hull # please post if you don't mind. I'd be curious to see what kind of data they kept on each boat.


He did dig out the file but said it was too big to scan everything. He sent me the original invoice for the sale - as new $65K in 1980. Also included several work orders/ invoices for repairs and upgrades such as Harken mainsheet traveller. Interesting that the staysail system wasn't original but added two years after purchase ($526). The PO apparently had all repairs and upgrades done by Tartan. He did say that there was nothing to indicate any kind of custom racer edition, strictly a stock build with some upgrades. He also noted that in regard to the amount of rudder above the waterline "Looking at the T37 lines drawing, if she is floating on her designed waterline (DWL), there would be 5-7 of rudder showing". Hmmm.

I've forwarded several specific questions to him; but, am still waiting for a reply.

Cheers,
Rado37


 
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