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 Post subject: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2022 08:27 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
This is the worst factory valve setup I’ve ever seen. So I punched them all. But there’s so little room that getting valves with bases in doesn’t appear feasible. I’m going to glass the exterior where the flush thru hulls we’re and build that up and put in standard thru hulls. I guess I’ll back them with G10 bedded in West System to accommodate irregularities in the hull, put the nuts on and duplicate what came out. I don’t like this Groco style straight valve setup but options appear limited. Anyone got better ideas that doesn’t involve cutting into balsa? Bueller? Anyone?
FYI they’re 1” and 1.5” holes. Note the hull thickness difference between the holes in the 3 hole photo. I intend to just glass from the outside and re-use the existing holes. But I’ll need to do a little inside grinding due to the half assed layup that brought tabbing around some of the valves.


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Last edited by Maineiac on 08 Aug 2022 06:42, edited 2 times in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2022 06:37 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
So the thru-hull locations were made into the hull mold. Interesting. I'm going to build up each location a little, fill in flush to the hull and fair everything and recut the holes. My goodness! I could lose 1/1,000,000 of a knot in hull speed. I looked at replacing the flush style thru hulls, but the flanges are even thinner than the mushroom style.

Carefull zip zip with a hole saw and an appropriate sized dowel driven into the thru hull far enough so your bitt can center and the hole saw reaches what you want it to. 1.25" for the little (1" diam.) ones, 1.25 and 2" for the larger ones. The bigger holes I cut through the 1.25" first and then lightly knock out the flange by cutting the 2" until fiberglass starts showing in the bronze groove. Then pry remaining flange out. Just keep checking the bronze and make sure you're not cutting glass. Drill, check, drill, check. If I had proper tools I could have knocked out all 5 thru hulls in a half hour. Never could have done it with a grinder - my old tried and true method - without making a mess due to the flush flanges.

I took all 5 of the pulled thru hull assemblies to Hamilton Marine yesterday and we spent a couple hours making up new ones. Kinda like going to Home Depot and doing up your bathroom pvc fittings.

I'm not excited about adding red brass nipples to the mix but the originals lasted 43 years. I don't KNOW what that head discharge mess was, but someone put a piece of plastic in the middle of it either at the factory or at some later date. That's now out of the mix.

All valves were either frozen or barely moved. The photos have befores and afters. I think it will all fit.

The thru hulls will all need to be cut, backed with G10 and the nut on the G-10. I'm not wild about this, but it'll work fine. Certainly not ABYC.

I am beginning to think things through a little on occasion. The Apollo valves at Hamilton would NOT work. The handles turn the wrong way (opposite of the old valves), stopped by bronze on the barrel of the valve, and can't be reversed and there's only so much room in the engine compartment and under the head sink. The Grocos reverse with the removal and replacement of an allen set screw. Good thing I thought about it or it would have been just one more dumb move and some cussing, disassembly and back to the boat store. Now if I can just remember to size the length of the thru hull correctly and cut before gooping it all up.

Oh, and your hose barbs are often just red brass pipe nipples. I fixed that, but had to use some brass barbs here and there. Avoiding that would be a good idea and use all bronze, but beggars and all that.

The engine system is all 5/8" i.d. hose as is the raw water pump. Period. Tiny. So increasing the size of the raw water intake to the W50 would take a lot more than just a bigger thru hull.


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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2022 11:34 
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Skipper

Joined: 25 Apr 2016 10:25
Posts: 185
Timely thread. I'm replacing our thru hulls during this haulout as well. I'm going to try to go with some of the Trudesign ones where they will fit.

For the engine thru hull, mine is a 3/4, but I'm thinking of converting it to an inch, but using an adapter to get the hose size back down to what it is expecting 5/8


 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2022 11:46 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
felizcortez wrote:
Timely thread. I'm replacing our thru hulls during this haulout as well. I'm going to try to go with some of the Trudesign ones where they will fit.

For the engine thru hull, mine is a 3/4, but I'm thinking of converting it to an inch, but using an adapter to get the hose size back down to what it is expecting 5/8


Just the holes in the hull are 1" for raw water engine, head and head sink drain. The fittings are all 3/4" with a 3/4 to 5/8" hose barb to 5/8" hose.

The hole saw bit worked well. Have a couple extra hole saws. I think what I did was plug the 1" holes with dowels with about 1" sticking out, center the bit and made the first cut as deep as I could stand it with a 1" hole saw. Then I went to 1 1/4" ever so lightly to cut through the flange. You might have to put another wood dowel into the hole. Same with the two larger holes - 1.25" first, then 1.5" lightly to avoid cutting fiberglass behind the flange. With the right tools and the RIGHT ARBOR, you can do all 5 in a half hour. Knock them into the boat, chisel off any remaining flange, use a multitool to cut the hoses inside, then replicate what you took out. I'm just not going back to flush flanges and will glass and fill the depressions before putting mushroom style thru hulls in. You'll need to cut (shorten) the new thru hulls a bit, de-burr and re-thread with the nuts.

Helpful tip, new to me. The hole saw arbor with the pins in it is specifically to keep dummies from heating up and tightening the arbor onto the hole saw blade permanently. The pins stop you from over tightening. Never knew that. Youngest son pointed it out after I fried a blade onto a screw-in-only arbor.

Can you build these out with all marelon parts? Otherwise you're going to be mixing and matching. I've got more brass than I'd like, but eh.


 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2022 11:44 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 656
I did this in a process very similar to yours. I recall being able to avoid red brass and getting bronze for everything however. I did have to have a machinist rethread some things a bit to make the bronze nipples work on the Groco through hull fittings, but they were close enough where it was not a problem. I put in a larger engine through hull (either 1" or 1and1/4") because my Yanmar required it. I may have used a slightly larger sink fitting too. I made them flush and built up the glass on the inside and outside first and drilled it and recessed it. I agree it probably does not make a lot of difference in speed, but I do not see it as dangerously thin or weak. I don't recall seeing balsa coring in these places when I did the original drill, but I made a larger hole and did significant layers of glass.


 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2022 12:48 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
Yeah, the mold design for layup avoids all balsa cored areas for thru hulls. The valve parts in the pictures along with a small canister of West System hard splooge and a quart of 2 part gray primer ran just over $500.00. Like I said, the red brass nipples were in the original and were actually used as hose barbs. I'm pretty sure it came that way from the factory. So I'm not going to worry too much about the brass except to keep an eye on things.

On the 3-hole photo, the hole to the bottom left is the sink drain (only). The larger hole to the right is the head outflow and the other hole is the raw water in for flushing the holding tank and to the head (see the valve photos). That small sink drain hole the hull thickness is about 1/4". I know it's hard to see, but the other 2 holes have hull thickness almost double that one. Not very far apart.

So I'm going to grind, glass, fair and redrill and lose the (skinny flange) flush mount thru hulls.


 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2022 08:00 
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Tactictian

Joined: 16 Jan 2019 08:52
Posts: 103
Try doubling up your hole saw buy putting a 1" hole saw as a guide inside the 1 1/4" hole saw. This eliminates the dowel to centre the pilot drill. works like a champ for enlarging any thru hole of any size you are dealing with. #337


 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2022 08:12 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
Zoombats wrote:
Try doubling up your hole saw buy putting a 1" hole saw as a guide inside the 1 1/4" hole saw. This eliminates the dowel to centre the pilot drill. works like a champ for enlarging any thru hole of any size you are dealing with. #337


Thing is, the smaller hole saw goes deep and the larger hole saw (see photo of larger thru hull) is meant just to tick the flange through to fiberglass. But you have to cut into the stem of the thru hull with the smaller saw to get everything to come out easily (and push the valve inward for removal). Actually, I ended up using a 2" hole saw to get the flanges out. In any event, I don't think I have an arbor that I could double up hole saws on. The threads won't reach.


 
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022 07:30 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
I ground out the old holes and filled with 8-10 layers of 17 oz biax, ground off the excess and hit it with the DA then hard West System filler to smooth out.

I'm going to cut 4" backing plates from 1/2" G10, grind out around the holes on the inside and bed those against the hull with hard West System filler. The hull is irregular and the West will assure complete contact. Then I'll cut the bedded backing plates from the outside.

I'm going to cut the thru hulls to eliminate some of the leverage created by length. The thru hull nut goes on on the inside, then the valve, etc. Within reason, the shorter the better. Wish I could just replace the valves with based units, but there just isn't room. But the way I cleared and filled the old valves, along with the backing plate, puts the area of the holes nearly an inch thick.


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File comment: Thru hull cut out, tapered back for glassing.
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File comment: One more run with the DA, then barrier coat with Pettit Protect and install the thru hulls.
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 Post subject: Re: All thru hulls coming out- suggestions?
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2022 05:08 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
If you do this (thru hull replacement) study carefully. I'm going back to Day 2 of installation in the head. There's barely enough room, and you have to assemble in a very certain sequence. Good thing we dry fitted. One thing was we took Harbor Freight prybars to the "ears" on the inside of the thru hulls and where we couldn't get a wrench, the thru hull was spun into the first fitting from the outside. You really have to think while you're doing it. And practically, there's no other way to re-install real, based valves. But my hull is 1" thick now at each thru hull. The engine/sink drain thru hulls should be infinitely easier. And THIS time I'm going to do something I haven't done in years. I'm going to wind the 5200 to them.


 
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