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 Post subject: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2019 15:42 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 307
Location: Maine/USVI
"We are starting a side company to help, service and sell classic Tartan Yachts." I simply filled in the form, since I couldn't find "Chris's" email address, and BEGGED that someone look at the T37C plans and tell me what the substrate was for the six centerboard pivot pin bolts. I have studied West System filler and tapping, going oversize, etc. and I'm not happy with the notion of those being threaded into GRP or epoxy. I don't believe it. There's got to be either a lead substrate in there or a steel plate. I've read both on this site. As well as GRP only, or "cement slurry." But my phone rang within 30 seconds of hitting "send" on the "inquiry" site on Tartan yachts. Some guy called from Bristol, R.I. and said I'd have an answer next week. And told me all about the spinoff company for helping classic Tartan owners. Cool.


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2019 20:44 
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Tactictian

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 146
I wouldn’t be concerned about tapping or lagging into the laminate. Drill it out clean, fill with thickened epoxy, re-drill, tap and set the brackets. I often tap machine screws into hardwood. The strength might surprise you. With the bolts in fiberglass, you can torque them down without stripping so clearly they are holding. A bit of resin on the bolt before you put it in will prevent it from turning out.

Chip
Esprit #324


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2019 11:02 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 307
Location: Maine/USVI
I'm not sure that you can correctly pre-tap for a lag bolt given the dimensions and angles of the threads. Not a machine screw, and designed to drag itself into the substrate. A small pilot hole seems like all that is required, then the threads do the work. We'll see. I've got one more broken bolt up in there that actually had another bolt threaded into it, which also broke at some point. Too cold to deal with this right now anyway.


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2019 18:57 
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Tactictian

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 146
I wouldn’t tap for a lag bolt. I would tap for a course thread machine screw. I will assume the bolts are 1/4” but they might be 3/8”. Drill the hole slightly oversize for the screw and fill the hole with epoxy which is heavily thickened with 404 filler. Now drill the hole according to the machinist table for the thread you are using and tap the hole. Wet the screw with epoxy before you put install. You are holding less than a total of 200 pounds (much less considering that you are under water). 6 bolts 1/4” x 20 tpi at 1-1/2” tapped into a sound frp laminate prepared that way would hold up a small car.

$.02

Chip


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2019 19:52 
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Tactictian

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 146
To further clarify, if I was using a lag screw, I would not be tapping the hole. I would still drill the hole small enough to properly torque the screw without breaking it and I would set it in wet epoxy. If the screw corrodes it will fail but I seriously doubt it would ever pull out.


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2019 10:26 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 307
Location: Maine/USVI
Yeah, I do have to redo mine. The port bolt plate is JUST enough off to cause the port aft end of the centerboard to bind. I'll take it all apart again when it stops freakin' SNOWING. I'm seriously tempted to upsize bolts once, fill the holes with West System spooge, drill a pilot hole about the size of a lag bolt bore centered on the original holes and lag it home. I've seen enough West System plugs let go to make me nervous about drilling and tapping into plugs only. As you said, you could probably hang a Cadillac off it, but there's nothing worse than wondering several hundred miles from shore. Wow. Lead and fiberglass just flashed through my head with the vision of another foot or so draft.


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2019 15:04 
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Skipper

Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 251
Probably needless advice, but if a lag is screwed into thickened epoxy (using silica I assume) and the pilot hole is about the size of the shank, the lag would go in easy if the epoxy not fully set; firm (green), but not yet 'hard'. If it sits long enough to cure fully the material could crack depending on the size of the pilot hole.

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Dave Lorick
Lunacy #198
Tampa, FL


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2019 15:56 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 307
Location: Maine/USVI
That adds an element I hadn't considered. West System ain't "green" for long, and drilling the right sized hole before lagging could get messy.

I'm gonna figure out where the lead is at. Same old holes, bigger lag bolts.

Even though Tartan has told me they're lagged into lead, I've seen enough commentary on here to continue to wonder.

Has anyone heard of someone who simply shot for the hinge hole and skipped the bolted plates? Bronze or stainless bar straight through, recessed on both sides, properly secured. You'd need tubes on each side of the keel to receive the bar and a means of capture on both ends. Or a head on one end and the other pinned. Then soft spooge over the fittings fair. Hmm. i'm seeing two bronze, properly sized cutless bearings in my mind's eye. Ooops. I believe it's time for rum. Happy New Year. See you in St. Thomas! I just need to wrap up work, move a foot of snow and get out of here.


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2020 10:38 
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Midshipman

Joined: 30 Dec 2006 18:37
Posts: 56
Can you provide any further information concerning this spinoff company? Is there a direct phone #, email address or website? Sounds interesting, and potentially very beneficial to us all.

Doug Radabaugh
Kinsale T37 #22


 
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 Post subject: Re: WOW! Instant TARTAN YACHTS Callback.
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2020 16:11 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 307
Location: Maine/USVI
I’ll find out, but I think it might be an element of Tartan for support of older models. One guy I talked to was in Bristol, RI and the other I’m Ohio (Chris). Sort of “dedicated” employees, but I really don’t know.


 
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