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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2019 10:54 
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Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 434
Location: Maine/USVI
Photos. I know they're sideways. Best I can do I guess. There's your rudderpost delrin "washer." If I did it again I'd do it thicker. And a view of the whole assembly headed back upward. Fairing flaps remain on the top, to be fabricated and installed anew on the bottom. Maybe a pressure curved piece of 1/4" plywood to exactly what I want for shape, wax it up and lay up some biax, smooth it with filler, a few stainless screws and fair it out. That's the first guess, anyway. I will use the easiest sanding West filler to replace the "plug" below the pintle. Bondo absorbs and holds water. No good.

I didn't HAVE to cut up the rudder and re-foam it. There were some drops of water coming out of the rudder, so I panicked. The foam was solid inside. The bottom leading point of the rudder had been dinged and leaked a tiny bit. All new now, anyway. Sealed up tight.

Look closely at the rudder photo (click on it to orient it correctly). The top of the rudder is quite wide/thick and different than the bottom. The issue with putting it all back together if you haven't removed the skeg is getting that fat top past everything and up and in. I didn't have to deal with that, but I imagine it takes some serious cramming.


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Last edited by Maineiac on 24 Dec 2019 11:56, edited 1 time in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2019 11:08 
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Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 434
Location: Maine/USVI
Maybe helpful. I covered roughly half of the opening with clamped battens over a plexi (cheap Lowe's) cover to see what was going on. Drop the end low and pour in. Good clamping and gorilla tape. Then move plexi & clamps, multiple pours so it didn't go crazy. Once the bottom kicked off, remove the plexi and close in the top, keep pouring. Sharp tools to smooth out and level for re-glassing. Drop in the cutout side of the rudder, fill some with West filler to "tack" it in place, fair, then glassed over with biax. Bottom of the rudder got touched up with the hard filler, the whole thing sanded fair, multiple coats of primer/barrier coat.

When I fitted the skeg, I used Gorilla tape to play with it until I decided how much I wanted to cut off. The fwd tip of the top was knocked off and I simply fitted the skeg as properly as I could to the hull receiver (flat area), marked it and cut quite a bit off the back edge. The "new" skegs really don't match up to the hull in any common sense way. I just did my best to match, and will fair everything with soft West. Then, having left over foam from the rudder, I foamed the inside of the skeg, leaving enough room at the top to get the pintle bolt assembly back in. I sealed up the foam with strips of biax. One of these photos you can see I kinda indented the back of the skeg (curvature) when I sealed it up. One thing I should have done was work down the inside top of the skeg to the thickness of the old skeg remnant. It wasn't that great a layup and I don't know how it would have worked out. I had no tools appropriate for doing that, and I'll live with it. You'd need a small air driven grinder. The top of the new Tartan skeg I bought (over $600) was way too thick. The lower (skeg hung) fairing flaps will be added later.


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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2020 09:51 
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Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 291
On page 1 of this thread I mentioned the rudder was in bad shape, cracked along the leading and trailing edge and very broken up around the pintle. Here are a few images I've been meaning to post showing:
- Before image
- Bushing w/5200 to address future water intrusion
- finished image w/ barrier coat

The middle image shows repair just starting. The area around the pintle is all glass rather than laminate over foam. I started by making a bushing a little larger diameter than the rudder pipe with a rim on one end. The steel was sanded to bright, cleaned and covered with 5200. Then the bushing was turned and worked into place.

Water eventually gets into most rudders. A common entry point is thought to be where laminate and steel meet. The two are very different material and water migrates through micro-fractures in laminate that grow over time. 5200 forms a water-tight bond that joins the two materials.

There's a couple guys at our club that have built one of a kind race boats and tricked out stock boats for (sail) racing. This was a tip they gave me years ago. I built a new rudder for my last boat and after several years there was no moisture visible down the rudder post as there was before. Keeping fingers crossed I don't have to drop this one again. The new pintle and hardware is 316 stainless. I added extra glass to the leading edge to make up for the scoring&scratches caused by oysters inside the skeg. I added a lot of bottom paint in there before reassemble. Last bottom was still working (where there was paint) after 6 years so things should be good for a while.


Attachments:
File comment: glass broken around pintle and leading edge
Rudder Pintle socket - cracked broken area 20191225.jpg
Rudder Pintle socket - cracked broken area 20191225.jpg [ 2.92 MB | Viewed 0 times ]
File comment: Repair started - glass bushing/5200 barrier between glass and steel
Rudder Pintle new glass to steel barrier bushing 20191227.jpg
Rudder Pintle new glass to steel barrier bushing 20191227.jpg [ 3.22 MB | Viewed 0 times ]
File comment: Rudder & Skeg with barrier coat
Rudder-Skeg barrier coated 20200201.jpg
Rudder-Skeg barrier coated 20200201.jpg [ 2.72 MB | Viewed 0 times ]

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Dave Lorick
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2020 10:18 
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Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 291
Here is an image of the 'tophat' pintle bushing on the pintle in the skeg. (I may have posted this image before).

By making the washer and bushing out of a single piece, the bushing can't ride up into the rudder shaft off the pintle if the pin fails. I had two bushing in mine - one up inside and one on the pintle. The one that was in place was worn into a cone shaped center.

I think the delrin should last much longer than the original bushing material.


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File comment: Pintle bushing in skeg
Pintle and bushing 20200124.jpg
Pintle and bushing 20200124.jpg [ 2.88 MB | Viewed 0 times ]
Tophat bushing for end of rudder shaft 20191225_065016.jpg
Tophat bushing for end of rudder shaft 20191225_065016.jpg [ 3.08 MB | Viewed 0 times ]

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Dave Lorick
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2020 16:00 
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That "tophat" idea is great - I wish I had thought of that (:

Richard


 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2020 20:51 
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Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 291
It does seem like an obvious solution (especially if you found a bushing up inside the rudder post like I did but), here is where I first saw it - Timshel where he shows a bronze pintle and the tophat.

If the link doesn't work, just search on Re: another rudder question!

viewtopic.php?p=3289
#p3289

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Dave Lorick
Lunacy #198
Tampa, FL


 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2020 20:58 
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Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 291
If you were referring to the tophap on the steel to laminate boundry at the base of the rudder post inside the rudder - yea, that's a REAL break-through that manufacturers should adopt...

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Dave Lorick
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