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 Post subject: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pintle
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019 13:59 
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Midshipman

Joined: 31 May 2017 22:18
Posts: 65
Location: Gulf of Mexico
I've been searching through all the pintle posts I can find. But haven't seen an obvious answer yet so I thought I'd try this...

Does anyone know if the entire skeg needs to be cut off to access all the pintle bolts? Or can I just cut off the vertical fairings covering the gap between the rudder and the skeg to get to them? There isn't enough clearance for me to see anything inside the skeg to get a good idea of how much room I'll have in there.

I know a lot of you have done work on the rudder, so hoping I can learn a thing or two from prior experience before I start cutting things off the boat Smile

Thanks!

Kirk


 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019 15:51 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 436
Location: Maine/USVI
I just deleted my whole answer. I have to ask the youngest some questions. Like how we got ahold of the bolt heads putting it all back together. I have photos somewhere.

Wrong. Bolt heads are tack welded. No need to get in there.


Last edited by Maineiac on 23 Dec 2019 17:31, edited 1 time in total

 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019 18:56 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2010 10:24
Posts: 169
Kirk, no need to remove skeg, To remove Pintle you have to cut a chunk out of the leading edge of the rudder,about 3, to let the Pintle drop out, ( sawzall) Once you have done this you have enough access for a wrench. Once done, glue the chunk back (5200 ?)
Check bolt pattern before getting a new one as they are not all the same. Photos are in VT, I am on boat in FL

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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 08:57 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 436
Location: Maine/USVI
Attachment:
Rudder stainless tabbed above pintle area.jpg

Rudder stainless tabbed above pintle area.jpg [ 611.99 KB | Viewed 0 times ]



Right right. My rudder didn't have the plug from the outset, but rather a large gap (3-4") below the pintle plate. Timshel is talking BELOW the pintle. There is a plug of "bondo" like material that is merely filler. There is no steel in the lower end of the rudder - it's all above the pintle. You're still going to have to take the fairing flap off one side or the other to get at it. WRONG AGAIN. No need to get in there. THAT'S why I couldn't think of what we did. We didn't need to do any cutting.
AND THE BOLT HEADS ARE WELDED.


Attachments:
Rudder like new.jpg
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Last edited by Maineiac on 23 Dec 2019 17:32, edited 1 time in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 09:00 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 436
Location: Maine/USVI
I had the heads of the bolts welded all the way around. Forgot that. You don't NEED to get at the bolt heads. They're welded. Your's probably has a single tack. Duh. Sorry about that.


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Pintle cleaned up, welded bolt heads..jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 09:02 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 436
Location: Maine/USVI
So all you're doing, if you choose to leave the rudder hanging without removal and the skeg in place, is making space for the pintle and bushing to drop out when you undo the nuts.

Don't just start banging on the bolts to drive them through. It will work against the bushing that's inside the rudderpost. It might come out O.K., but go out and tap just forward of the rudder to make sure the bushing comes out true. It's probably re-usable.

But be sure to support the rudder before you take the pintle plate out. Just to be sure. But as I recall you don't have that large washer on the rudderpost to keep it from contacting the hull above. Be sure to get the right thickness. i think the one i put on is a little thin.

My mind hasn't been on this task in several months. I'm baking my brain with too many elderly electronics now.


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rudderpost recessed up in there three eighths inch or so.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 13:11 
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Skipper

Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 291
Kirk,
The bolts are welded as said above.

I dropped the rudder a week ago and have it gutted for rebuild in my garage. A local machine shop is going to give me the price to replicate it in 304 and in 316 (which I'll go with if it is not too expensive). The only thing wrong with the pintle is the pin itself - it is badly pitted as shown by other posts. The rest looked fine. The shop is also making a delrin 'top-hat' bushing that combines the washer / sleeve that covers the pintle pin. That will prevent the bushing the riding up into the shaft.

The glass on the rudder was in very bad condition - blisters (some through to core) and cracks on trailing edge and around the pintle area.

But removing the packing on the shaft along with steering cable / radial wheel the rudder was ready to drop after removing the nuts on the bolts welded to the pintle bar. Ready, ,but it would not move until overcoming the sealant between the skeg and the hull. That was cut out with a 4" grinder using a thin cutoff wheel.

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Dave Lorick
Lunacy #198
Tampa, FL


 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 13:58 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 436
Location: Maine/USVI
Now I got to look. I'm hull 216 and didn't note any particular packing on shaft.

Timshel assumes the skeg stays in place (I think) and Lunacy assumes the skeg is coming off (I think). I can see where I might be able to get the pintle unit out without dropping the rudder or removing the skeg, if the "notch" is cut out, but taking the rudder out might be required. If so, you'll need ground clearance. I had 1/4" to spare on a concrete floor. The whole unit, pintle, skeg and rudder, go back up as one. I just kept blocking and shimming the bottom of the rudder until I had the bolts well in, using a long 2x4 as a lever to carefully lift the rudder, jam it in place, head up and put the nuts on the bolts (i used 4200). It's better if there's two to tango on this. Make sure you have a backing plate inside. I saw one T37 with just washers.

EDIT: But as I recall reading, there are issues with trying to put it all back together if you don't take the skeg off as well. It just doesn't work well. So to get your pintle plate & bushing out, I think the whole shooting match comes out, rudder and skeg. I think the consensus was that the whole thing goes back together all at once, and trying to re-fit the rudder with the skeg already in place is problematic due to the narrow aft aperture of the skeg. Mine was gone, so I had to whittle a new skeg and install it all at once anyway.

None of this is an insurmountable undertaking. Just make certain you have clearance to get the rudder out.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 17:46 
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Midshipman

Joined: 31 May 2017 22:18
Posts: 65
Location: Gulf of Mexico
Wow! Thanks for all the replies. All very helpful - especially the bit about cutting the chunk out of the rudder and the the welds on the bolt heads. That really helps me wrap my head around what I need to do and how much access I'll need.

The only "issue" I'm really having is a bit more vertical movement of the rudder than I think I'd like when beating into waves. My guess is due to this being a fresh water boat and it being hauled out for half the year each year of its life that the pintle itself is not that bad. So this is all a bit exploratory...


 
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 Post subject: Re: Cut off Entire Skeg or Just Fairings to Access Rudder Pi
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2019 18:46 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 436
Location: Maine/USVI
You need a giant delrin washer that slides onto the rudderpost from the top (when you have the rudder out) and sits between the top of the rudder and the hull. But mine had zero play up and down and was somehow secured inside as well. Got to ask the bilge monkey. He took the quadrant apart. I've had him doing this since he was 5, hanging by his ankles cleaning dirty bilges. That was 30 years ago.


 
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