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 Post subject: Skeg & Rudder Reassembly & Note to Tartan; thoughts?
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2019 12:41 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
Here's the email I sent Chris a few minutes ago. Maybe I'm overthinking this:

Chris: thanks for taking my call the other day. I THINK I need a 3" diameter, 3/16th's inch thick, 1" inside diameter (hole) Delrin washer to sit under the rudder bushing. I'm hoping this works, as the prior setup had a 3/16th stainless washer, and the bottom end of the rudderpost is slightly (3/8") up INSIDE the rudder. I'm not sure if the rudderpost rode on the stainless washer metal to metal or the rudder is suspended sufficiently from inside the boat when reassembled so there's no rudder/pintle contact. There was no appreciable wear. We'll find out when I start reassembly. Does the rudder actually "ride" or bear on the pintle plate in any way, or is this merely a "capture" concept to secure the rudder from any lateral movement on the vertical plane?

I'm thinking this Delrin washer be slightly larger in diameter . . . let me go look . . .yeah. 3" diameter vs. the 2.5" of the bushing, thereby creating a bearing surface 1/4" all the way around on the pintle bar. But the recessed lower end of the rudderstock concerns me. Is the washer below the bearing SUPPOSED to fit into the end of the rudderstock and bear directly on the stainless rudderpost? If so, the larger diameter washer may be incorrect and throw off my fitting everything back together correctly and get all the original clearances back. It would also reduce the insertion depth of the bushing.

So I went an checked again and the stainless 2" washer (3/16ths thick) actually fits up inside the rudderpost hole. The stainless rudderpost is a full 3/8" recessed inside the hole. Everything seemed to work correctly with the stainless washer, but factory spec would be preferable (with Delrin) if it works. Can you find out if the final adjustments to the rudder are made at the rudderhead, thus suspending it at the correct height? Any direction would be appreciated.

If I am incorrect about the rudder bearing on the pintle bar, I need to know, since a slightly larger diameter Delrin washer won't fit up inside the rudderstock hole and I'd be looking at a do-over.

Kindest Regards,
Kevin Weatherbee

So the bushing AND the 3/16th's washer it rides on fit up inside the rudderpost. Should I go to Delrin, or just put the stainless one back in? Is the rudderpost somewhat "suspended" from above after reassembly, not "riding" on the pintle bar generally? Is the pintle bar and bushing merely capturing the rudder from lateral movement? I would really prefer not to reassemble this 3 or 4 times. Oh, and I'm going with the "cut 3" off the skeg, 2" into the top plate from aft and add fairing strips." Seems logical, easiest approach. Must be the same skeg mold, must be the same hull mold. I'm also going to use some fiberglass cloth and seal the interior of the skeg off from sea life, spray in barrier coat and (squirt bottle) spray in a bunch of Micron 66.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Skeg & Rudder Reassembly & Note to Tartan; thoughts?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2019 09:14 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
I still question whether the rudder is "suspended" and the bushing is merely a lateral capture tool. I haven't looked inside the hull lately. Spent all day yesterday scraping the bottom back to gelcoat. Ain't even half done. Whew.

My rudderstock isn't like the one in the diagram. I think its easy to get this wrong. Or Tartan did things more than one way. My stainless rudderstock is 3/8" up INSIDE the rudder, and the bushing sat on a 3/16" thick stainless washer. Which infers to me the whole thing is "suspended." Otherwise, how would the pintle bar clear the rudder fiberglass above it? Or did a later repair end up with my scenario? We're getting there slowly. I see a new boat under that bottom paint and 1 part poly on the coachouse. Ports are all cut and prepped for Newfounds, teak spacers all varnished and ready, everything lines up, pulpit ready for reinstallation after some repair. I just need someone to hold my nuts. Funny how people react when you ask them. I just can't reach the nuts in the chain locker while screwing down from the deck.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Skeg & Rudder Reassembly & Note to Tartan; thoughts?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2019 10:22 
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Skipper

Joined: 14 Jul 2012 20:36
Posts: 495
Location: Norfolk, Va
In Bahamas, very salty water my rudder floats up. In the Chesapeake Bay it sits on the bottom bracket. On hold your nuts, try vicegrips on nuts after you got them started.

_________________
Hull #208, Puff Card
Southern Chesapeake Bay


 
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 Post subject: Re: Skeg & Rudder Reassembly & Note to Tartan; thoughts?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2019 18:09 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
puffcard wrote:
In Bahamas, very salty water my rudder floats up. In the Chesapeake Bay it sits on the bottom bracket. On hold your nuts, try vicegrips on nuts after you got them started.


Does it wear the fiberglass on the rudder sitting on the bottom bracket? Is the base of the rudderpost recessed a little? I'd really like to know what was intended with the original design, whether it simply stops lateral movement or actually provides support to the rudder.

As to vicegrips, got the whole set and yes, have done that over and over. It's all about positioning. However, it is kinda fun to ask for the help. You should have seen Shamba, the rasta yard worker in STT when I asked him to hold my nuts many years ago. It wasn't funny until he got it. Thought I was going to get thumped. I'm just whining working alone. The rudder reinstall is the largest pain in the ass, followed by the Newfounds. I'll figure it out.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Skeg & Rudder Reassembly & Note to Tartan; thoughts?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2019 15:50 
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Midshipman

Joined: 31 May 2017 22:18
Posts: 66
Location: Gulf of Mexico
I'm quite interested in what you find out. We are going to need to do some rudder work sooner than later.

We noticed a "thud" sound on our crossing over to the Bahamas this year that happened with each wave we bashed into. Unfortunately for us we were beating.... the wind didn't end up with as much south in it as predicted.

It took quite a while to figure out what it was, but discovered our quadrant was moving up and down about 1/2" inch in the 5-7 footers.

This was quite a concerning discovery. We don't have any leaks that I can see in the area, but I'm pretty sure things aren't supposed to be moving around quite like that.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Skeg & Rudder Reassembly & Note to Tartan; thoughts?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2019 18:31 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
I spoke to the previous owner of Hull No. 216 yesterday and he felt that the bushing on the pintle is merely a capture device to secure the rudder from lateral movement. He had a bunch of (pricey) glass work done when he had a "thud" going on in his rudderstock inside the hull. There is supposed to be a 3/16th (I believe, maybe 1/4") delrin washer above the rudder on the rudderstock to keep it from floating up and bumping the hull. He didn't have one. I'm putting one in. But make sure your rudder assembly inside the hull hasn't busted some glass loose or something. That's what happened to the previous owner on my boat. Thus far, Tartan hasn't responded. And it was "pricey" primarily because of the yard he used to do it. I can see them from outside my office window. Got to pay for that 450 Ton Travel Lift. Glasswork ain't rocket science, but it does have to be done right.


 
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