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 Post subject: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019 18:53 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 28 Nov 2018 16:38
Posts: 6
OK, while working on the rudder, I noticed that the fiberglass at the section of the rudder that rests on the pintle was separating. Peeling back a bit, it seems very thin (see picture). While the glass on the rest of the rudder is about 3/8 inches and sturdy, the fiberglass in this area is thin and flexible. Has anyone else noticed this?

This seems like a weakness in the design of the rudder. The full weight of the rudder always rests on this small section, and it rubs against the pintle every time the rudder is turned. Seems like a good point for water intrusion into the rudder.

It really can't be reinforced by adding more glass on the outside, because the extra glass might rub off with use. I'm thinking of really re-enforcing it with a lot of thickened epoxy from the inside when I open up the rudder. Additionally, I can glue a thin piece of teflon sheet on the outside. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2019 12:59 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 245
Location: Maine/USVI
You're supposed to have a 1/8" thick 2.25" by 1" i.d. delrin washer below the bushing between bushing and rudder. When I took mine apart, it had a big stainless washer in that location, so your idea of adding teflon probably wouldn't hurt, but be aware the tolerances when you put the pintle plate back together, bolts inside the fairing, and how everything moves back into place. I even saved the piece of scrap fairing that came off above the pintle plate to make sure I'm at the right thickness when it all goes back together.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2019 20:38 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 28 Nov 2018 16:38
Posts: 6
Maineiac wrote:
You're supposed to have a 1/8" thick 2.25" by 1" i.d. delrin washer below the bushing between bushing and rudder.


Hmm...no washer of any kind. Just bushing on pintle (see picture). Bushing seems to be held on 1-inch bolt by two pins on both sides. Could this be an older design? I have hull #72 (1977).


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 Post subject: Re: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2019 09:49 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 245
Location: Maine/USVI
Mine's only got one pin, and I added a second sideways through the pintle bar and the 1" pintle pin. And yes, there are supposed to be Delrin washers, one under the bushing and one on the rudderpost between the top of the rudder and the hull. At least that's what Chris at Tartan tells me. Mine only had a stainless washer below the bushing. All this, you kinda need to figure and add things up as you put it all back together so you don't get binding or slop (I figure). The captured stainless pin through my bushing simply turned to mush over the time it was in there. I'm putting a new one in, a new one through the pintle plate sideways into the 1" pintle pin, bushing on the plate and bushing at the top. The Delrin below the bushing . . . the bushing doesn't turn (obviously), so I'd have to wake up and think why you're getting the wear . . . except a lot of them lose the retaining pin and simply turn with the rudderpost. I looked at one that had sheared the retaining pin and shinnied up the rudderpost almost out of sight, and off the pintle pin. Dumb design.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2019 21:56 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 28 Nov 2018 16:38
Posts: 6
I'm not that thrilled about the design the more I think about it. I might have a thin steel ring made to fit around the base of the bushing. That way it's all metal-on-metal contact when the rudder turns. The lack of bottom ring could explain why the fiberglass delaminated on my rudder. In any case, I'll be sure to not add too much material. From what I've read on this forum, I can't push the rudder up too far before it starts to get jammed.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 02 May 2019 14:11 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 245
Location: Maine/USVI
As I put this thing back together, I think the washer below the bushing should be 3/16" and well wider than the bushing so the rudder can move on it without eating the mating surface of the rudder above. I'm not where I can look at it, but I didn't get the new delrin washer made big enough I don't think. There is a slight gap below the pinned bushing and . . . well, I guess that wouldn't matter as long as the washer extends beyond the bushing as a bearing surface.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Fiberglass on Rudder
PostPosted: 03 May 2019 17:22 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 245
Location: Maine/USVI
O.K., I checked and this is what I see. You need a 3.5" diameter (1" i.d. hole) delrin (whatever that is, seems awful hard plastic) on the pintle pin. The proper thickness is 3/16th inch, at least for mine. I suggest you measure below the bushing so it fits snugly.
The 1/4" thick washer I had made (supposedly delrin, but hard as a 33 1/3 Led Zeppelin record) just floats under the bushing, so its doing nothing, and its the same size as the bushing. So, again, it does nothing. The 3.5" diameter I have to come up with would provide a bearing surface that exceeds the outside diameter of the rudderpost and the fiberglass portion of the rudder would bear on. My rudder post looks different that yours, and ends 3/8" or so up inside the fiberglass part of the rudder. Any bigger than 3.5" will interfere with the rudder movement. Any smaller and you lose bearing area. Really, a piss poor design. Kinda like "let's just wrap this up and get it in production." I'll start with 3.5" and shave if necessary. I need to look at it some more. Maybe a buildup of nylon sheet . . . nah. The 3.5" x 3/16th thick washer basically holds the rudder up off the rest of the pintle plate.

I also have a LARGE washer to install between hull and rudder on the rudder post where there was nothing. I'm leery of this one, since there wasn't any play, and there's JUST enough space maybe to get it in there when I reassemble. I think we'll be doing a complete dry fit run through before spiking anything down.

(I just edited this after going out to the garage and measuring - I had 3" at first. Not enough bearing surface to make me happy, but 3.5" is the limit, adjust with a sander as needed. And it's May 3rd and damn cold in my garage.)


 
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