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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018 07:43 
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Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 454
Location: Maine/USVI
Just another novice question.


Last edited by Maineiac on 01 Oct 2018 09:07, edited 1 time in total

 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018 17:21 
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Skipper

Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 294
If you don't have a water heater in that location there is lots of space to work with. If you add batteries there, consider something maintenance-free since it won't be easy emptying the cockpit locker and crawling down there to add water.

Regarding the boat being 'bow down', since I pulled the Westerbeke, I've had water in the cockpit by the companionway that won't drain aft. I assume the weight of the new engine will restore the trim so at least there is complete cockpit drainage.

By the way, there were two batteries under the sink with I bought the boat. I removed one to gain extra storage but kept the one in the back corner. A second could be added side by side without loss of storage that's near at hand.

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Dave Lorick
Lunacy #198
Tampa, FL


 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018 18:57 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 21 May 2015 16:43
Posts: 16
I chose the quarter berth locker for my house bank of 6v batteries along with charger and solar controller. Had to build a shelf in the bottom of the locker to support the batteries. My start battery is under the nav seat along with an inverter.


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Hull #346 IMAGINE
Gulf Breeze,FL
 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018 10:24 
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Skipper

Joined: 14 Jul 2012 20:36
Posts: 411
Ganzie, nice looking job. I would be hard pressed to give up that stowage. Seems most go that direction when going to 6v GC batteries. How does your boat trim with those installed?

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Hull #208, Puff Card
Southern Chesapeake Bay


 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018 15:44 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 21 May 2015 16:43
Posts: 16
Thanks puffcard, Trim seems ok but I do keep the starboard water tank topped off.

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Hull #346 IMAGINE
Gulf Breeze,FL


 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018 17:29 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 173
When I did this, I put 2 Trojan Golf cart 6 volt batteries under the nav seat and hooked them to 2 more at the most forward end of the quarter berth locker (we had to remove the existing battery trays if I recall correctly). The starting battery was placed directly aft of that bank in the quarter berth locker. That system had electric refrigeration and is still working fine 20 years later. It isn’t my boat but I think the owners have replaced the golf cart batteries twice since then.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2018 06:32 
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 579
I don’t want to hijack this thread, but seems like folks thinking about batteries should also think about the whole system and their usage when planning. I didn’t, and there can be a problem with “too much capacity” and too much complexity—and I am thinking—others might go down the same road as I did.
I put in two banks of 6V golf cart batteries 20 years ago, a 100 amp alternator, and a smart regulator. I do not believe in starting batteries as they unnecessarily complicate things (another discussion)—if you run things flat or have a bad cell you need only to isolate the cell (use the other bank) and let it recover a few hours to start your small diesel.
Theoretically, I have something like 400 ah of storage. I also have a 65W solar panel that is just there to top off the batteries and help out with charging—seems to provide 10 to 15 ah a day, but hard to tell.
Here is the problem with this system. I use about 80 amps in a 24 hour period with AB refrig, lights, diesel heater nav gear and radios. Whenever I get around to charging, the smart regulator tapers the charge after time and senses that the bank’s voltage and amps are getting back to 90%+ (I use the two banks together, the only reason to separate them is if I had a bad cell in one bank IMHO). The smart regulator then kicks down to just a few amps of alternator output because it senses “acceptance rate” of your battery bank which is less as the batteries get warmer, increase their voltage feedback, and over total charging time. Result: the system is very kind to the batteries (not heating them up and gassing them by prolonged charging if I am motoring for many hours) but when I am out cruising I am running around with chronically undercharged banks unless I motor for 10 hours (or stop and start the engine so that the smart charger starts its routine with a period of high output again (and then, what is the point of having a smart regulator??). You might gas flooded cell batteries by putting a charge on them faster and have to check the fluid more often, but the option is having chronically undercharged batteries.
My system worked fine when I was cruising Central America and hanging out in anchorages for a few days and running the banks down to 50%-60% and then motoring for many hours in calm conditions (cruisers who actually go places motor more than they will admit), but I don’t do that anymore. Now, I go out for a week or two and generally move daily to a new anchorage (with some motoring just to pick up the gear and maneuver). And, while I am out, my banks are undercharged because the smart reguator tapers the charge based on time and voltage feedback from the bank . I will put out there that my bank is too large for my current useage of the boat and that I would probably be better off with a standard internally regulated alternator and half the capacity in my two banks. My local boat yard manager, Bob Vaughn, agrees. So my point is that most folks seem to 1.) have too large a bank of batteries for the way they use their boats—resulting in chronically undercharged batteries while underway. 2.) smart regulators are great if you are motoring for days at a time, but probably contribute to undercharging if you do not. 3.) I won’t go into the point that the complication of needing and wiring starting batteries is an old idea that has been kept alive by folks selling us stuff—even Nigel Calder has come to this conclusion—though he makes his living writing books about complicated systems. In fact, I think we get sold an incredible amount of “more capacity and more complication is better” despite the fact that some of it just makes us spend more time and much more money working on stuff than enjoying sailing. I could have earned a very good living fixing other cruisers’ complicated systems during the years in Central America—it always seemed that cruisers with complicated systems were always down and looking for technical help in exotic placs, but the guys with surfboards and simple systems were doing something else. Now that I am a seasonal, weekly and weekend cruiser, it seems many of my fellow sailors are victims of the marketers of “more is better”. Installing a battery monitoring system was the data that brought me these realizations. Before I had data and facts, I was a victim of the sales folks as well. Just a cautionary note. The magazines and folks at the marine stores and the guys who make a living installing and fixing are not necessarily thinking through your needs.
FWIW.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2018 14:16 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 454
Location: Maine/USVI
100% agreed.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018 17:50 
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Tactictian

Joined: 25 Apr 2016 10:25
Posts: 110
So I am in the process of replacing the batteries now and I'm trying to understand the charging system that I have in place on the boat.

The Raritan battery charger is hooked up to each bank and provides charging when the AC is turned on.

The Alternator appears to charge through the starting cable back through my 1 both 2 off switch. This which charge whichever battery is selected at the time. This seems like a strange way to run things to me. Wouldn't you want the alternator directly hooked up to the individual bank you want to charge and then run a battery to battery charger to charge the other battery.

There is a another positive and negative wire that appears to go to the instrument panel where the gauges are for the engine from the house battery. I'm not sure what this one is doing yet as I need to trace this back.

I've attached a diagram of how this is all hooked up now.


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 Post subject: Re: Batteries
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2018 18:10 
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Tactictian

Joined: 25 Apr 2016 10:25
Posts: 110
I am almost finished with the battery project. It took longer than I thought, but I ended up building a shelf in the quarterbirth so I could add additional batteries.

I ended up going with 4 Crown CR235 6v Batteries. I was worried the CR235's would be too tall, but they fit perfectly and accessing their caps to fill fluids is not a problem. Two were installed under the Nav seat and then 2 more were installed in the quarterbirth. I relocated the starting battery to behind the 6V's in the quarter birth. I still have a few more wires to hook up which I'll get to next week, but this is what the install looks like.


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