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 Post subject: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2007 19:56 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 04 Jan 2007 13:34
Posts: 7
I ran into a bit of coral in the Bahamas and I'll need to remove the rudder on Skylark and either repair it myself or have to buy a new rudder.

Has anyone removed their rudder? Is there a place to have a new rudder made.

I'd appreciate any information you have? May all your groundings be in sand.

Bill


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2007 21:36 
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Skipper

Joined: 20 Oct 2006 16:10
Posts: 687
Location: Out of Waukegan, IL
There's some chatter on that topic in the General Maintenance area. I'll copy this thread over there. Welcome! Tartan

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SMMO/First Mate aboard High Flight #299
1981 - Full Keel - Furling Main (A boat for the lazy crew...)


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2007 13:04 
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Skipper

Joined: 10 Nov 2006 22:56
Posts: 171
Location: Portland, Oregon
There are several rudder repair/maintenance articles in past issues of the T37 Owners Association newsletter. Not sure if any of this info is available electronically, but I can email you scanned copies if you need them.

Jay

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Jay and Muki Kerr
Tartan 37 Betty Lou (formerly Rainbow)
Hull # 118, fin keel
St. Helens, OR
Betty Lou's Blog


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2007 06:16 
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Skipper

Joined: 27 Oct 2006 10:32
Posts: 827
You can buy an exact replacement from Tartan Yachts, ain't cheap at $2600 or so plus shipping......ouch!!!!
https://www.tartanparts.com/product/pro ... fcf6d105d2


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2007 15:56 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 19 Apr 2007 15:41
Posts: 2
Had to replace rudder 8/02 after gronding in Woods Hole, Mass. Purchaced from Whitewater Marine Port Huron Michigan. 810 987-4837. cost $2109.00 Insurance claim-- not sure still there. Good luck. Rob "Pinga"


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2007 22:27 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 31 Oct 2006 19:43
Posts: 37
Dear Bill,
On Windfall #52 I have removed the rudder a couple of times, after you do it once, I doesn't seem too bad. First time I removed was to inspect for "corrosion of the rudder post and web" after a survey. I drilled a few small holes from top to mid way down to locate the web inside, then I used a hole saw to cut out an inspection hole. There is a couple of layers of fiberglass that make up the skin then some coarse grained foam that was perfectly dry, and on one side of the rudder post, I think the starboard side, two 12" stainless steel flat bars were welded and they were braced with a welded gusset of the same flat stock from the port side of the rudder tube to make a small triangle. There was no corrosion the welds were fine and I glassed it all back together happily for about 15 years. By the way, there is no steel or other support at all in the lower half of the rudder, which leads to the rest of the story. In 2005, I installed a inboard autopilot drive which requires spending a lot of time way back there under the cockpit I am not so slim anymore and I installed a subfloor to lay on and glassed in a hand hold or two and wired up a 110 volt plug for light and tools. That area and me are good friends by now. After the install and durning a spring launch off a hydraulic boat trailer into the Merrimac River in less than ideal conditions, the rudder was lodged in the trailer and eventually broke off just below the lower bearing. The floating peice was recovered and I was left to maneuver Windfall in 2kts of current and 20+kts of wind with half a rudder, all the while there are two low bridges less than 1/4 mile down stream. The good news is that a Tartan 37 will respond to the remnants of a broken rudder, I was able to make several 360 turns in the river loaded with mooring balls and floating lines and I did "crab" against the current and put her back on the boat hauler's trailer for a haulout. While I did not actually sail the boat, I am confident that a 37 would be able to sail with a broken rudder. It took a day or so for me to come to grips with the situation of having to remove the rudder in a parking lot far from home base but with moral support from my wife Jean, and others I had the rudder out in about an hour, the trucking company had a fiberglass man repair the two peices into one in a couple of days and I had the rudder back in a couple of hours. The repair was not complicated and it has served for over 3000 mile of intercoastal cruising from Mass. to Key West and back. If you have chunks or peices missing, I don't think it would be too difficult to cut some foam and make a perfectly good repair. Waiting for another rudder to be made and shipped could be a while, and then you would have the hassle of fitting every thing to the new rudder, while these boats were mass produced, the individual fitting out could be slightly different.
Going from memory, 1. loosen the centerline bolt that keeps the cable drive wheel (CDW) aligned with the rudder shaft. 2. I think you can loosen, but not remove, the 4 capscrews that clamp the CDW halfs together and also hold the CDW to the rudder post. Keeping the CDW bolts in place should loosen the steering cables enough to let the rudder drop out after the lower bearing is unbolted. 3. The lower bearing is way down aft in the narrow "V" of the area under the rudder CDW, in my experience, it is the hardest part of the job getting that to be loose and droped down. There are 3 or 4 3/4" hex nuts that must be removed, you may need a long socket extension and a breaker bar to get them started, once the turn work them back and forth with penetrating oil because they are stainless on stainless and once they start to "gall" you will have more trouble so take a little time with that part. That lower bearing is just a heavy stainless bar with bolts welded on one end and a 2" peice of 1" propeller shaft at the other end that is the axle for the lower part of the rudder bearing. You can't really hurt it so protect the exposed threads inside the boat with steel nuts and hammer away till you see it loosen an 1/8" or so, then go outside and look at the fairing in front of the rudder, the lower bearing that you have been banging on is also holding the fairing up to the hull. Your activity may have loosened the fairing or at least knocked out some filler so the seam is evident, the fairing is thin fiberglass and the hull is very strong so the joint between the two should open up by working the fairing side to side. If you have a hull that was "glassed" over the joint to make it fair, then you will have to sound out the joint with a hammer and cut the bond with a sharp tool. The rudder will start to work itself down as you get the fairing and the lower bearing out of the way.
In my instance I did not loosen the steering cables because the can be a pain to get right. On the leading edge of the rudder where the lower bearing is, you may have a notch or 2" recess in the rudder, my rudder has hard foam " bricks" glued in as a filler peice on either side, I knocked them out with a hammer and glued them back after the job was done, maybe they don't need to come out or mabe only one.

Sam


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2007 10:30 
Offline
Rail Meat

Joined: 04 Jan 2007 13:34
Posts: 7
Sam,
You ARE the best. This information is just what I was looking for.

Thank you,

Bill Skylark 1981 # 294


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2007 15:42 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 31 Oct 2006 19:43
Posts: 37
Bill, I remember another pair of small 5/16th " bolts on the outer rim of the CDW that keep the outr cable track aligned, those must be removed. I would remove those first before anything else.
Sam


 
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 Post subject: Re: Rudder help please.
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2007 10:20 
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Skipper

Joined: 20 Oct 2006 16:10
Posts: 687
Location: Out of Waukegan, IL
Thanks for the great contribution Sam. Nice to have this kind of experience in print.

_________________
SMMO/First Mate aboard High Flight #299
1981 - Full Keel - Furling Main (A boat for the lazy crew...)


 
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