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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017 14:34 
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Skipper

Joined: 14 Jul 2012 20:36
Posts: 495
Location: Norfolk, Va
The pintle and the photograph is not a stock pintle it had bar stock added to the bottom for reinforcing. I don't feel that it's required. The stock one is just a flat bar with the four or three bolts going up into the boat and the pin. The hole in the main pin. Is to put a round pin for keeping the bushing from spinning and coming off. The main pintle pin, I had the machine shop drill the bar for the round bar stock and then weld it on the bottom and no welding on the top and that has worked from me. Of course the bolts also need to be welded to the bar stock so that they don't spin and you can tighten them from within. Don't just tack, get a couple sides of the bolt welded. I don't know how the rudder stock/tube goes up into the rudder. I'll be dropping my rudder in about three weeks to inspect and rebuild the rudder. If you need more photos, let us know.

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Southern Chesapeake Bay


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017 07:31 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
Do you have any photos of the bushing sitting on that pintle pin with the retaining pin (to keep the bushing from spinning) in it? That's a new one on me. What I see on this boat is a bushing, sitting on the pintle plate, with a pin down through it, somehow captured from the top so it won't drop through the hole in the pintle plate, yet able to be easily pushed upward with light finger pressure from beneath. There are no remnants of welds at the plate/pin junction, and no containment pin showing through plate and pintle pin. I think why I reached in and "felt" the pin originally was because somewhere I saw a drilled plate to accept a containment pin through the side and into the pintle pin. I've got another one on the hard a couple hours away, it's a beautiful day, wife has the grandkids, so we're going to take a ride after I get a few things done in the office. Stop in Rockland and grab a couple lobster rolls (sigh). End of summer up here and all I can think about is 5' of snow and the attendant daily snow removal tasks. Dammit.

I'll take photos of everything today.


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017 16:22 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
I've attached a picture of the pintle I removed from my boat a few years back. It shows the pintle, 1 in shaft, which is welded to the plate. The bushing slides onto the shaft AND should be held in place by a pin which goes through the bushing and shaft. On the one shown, for some reason, a groove was cut in the bushing to allow the bushing to slide over the pin. Well, the bushing worked its way up off the pin and only the pin was providing some lateral restraint, and had no fore and aft restraint. Had a new bushing fabricated, which was held in place by the pin.


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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA
 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017 16:25 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 236
So did you pull the trigger on this boat? It sounds like you are in for removing the rudder at the least. We had very good friends who had hull 52 and that boat also lost its skeg. We sailed against them pretty regularly and I am quite sure it hampered the performance of the boat so in addition, you should be looking at that expense as well. It has the added benefit of eliminating a point to pick up pot lines. On Esprit, with our folding propeller, we could sail right through the lobster pots without a worry. Engine on was a different story of course.


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2017 08:42 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
No trigger pulling until I'm satisified. I went and looked at Hull #87 yesterday. I would dearly prefer the white gelcoat to the medium/dark blue, since I might avoid an awlgrip job.

That hull, a '78 (Kangaroo), has the 3-staggered-bolt pintle plate, the (hollow) skeg/fairing remains in place (kinda beat up). The plate itself almost looked a little tweaked. Not completely true end-to-end. But I could see up into the bearing space and the 1" pin was just standing there, tack welded in place. It was like there was no bearing. The bearing on the blue boat is obviously intact, pintle plate (4 bolt) looks good, it's just that the 1" pin "floats up.

Both rudders seemed O.K.

I also looked carefully at the centerboard fixture on both boats. On #87, obvious bolts, clean, neat installation and almost looked like it had been redone at some point. On the blue boat, all of the bolts seem to be buried in spooge (bondo), hidden,metal plates sticking out where the swivel bolt goes through, etc.

On #87 I did have the opportunity to observe the SS pipe for the centerboard pennant (mast down). It was standing over the mast step. It had a length of PVC attached at the top to bring the height to within 6" of the overhead in the salon. That would make sense.

A lot of different things on these boats and they were probably built less than a year apart 78-79. I was surprised to see the 3 bolt pintle plate on the '78. Since, if I do this, I will be fitting self steering gear, I sounded both transoms. The '78 seemed thinner. Either one would get 21" biaxial glass and West reinforcement, most likely from inside (God I hate grinding in the lazarette).

On either boat, I would pull all the chainplates. Nobody knows if they were ever replaced on either boat. Still, I remember looking at a Tartan 30 years ago at IBY in St. Thomas - I needed another boat at the time like a hole in the head. But I remember thinking what a winky chainplate setup with a welded angle thing on one of the plates. This is something I'd really like to change with a straight plate (what, the forward lower?). The hull on the blue boat at this knee (forward lower, in the head) has a hard spot dimple that's barely discernable except in the right light. Maybe I'm too picky.

Love these boats, love to do the "laying on of hands" in my yard at home, but I'm trying to be fairly cautious with 40 year old hulls. Hell, my Bristol 35 Alden was only 20 years old when I bought that, and I thought it was an antique.

So I expect to yank the rudder, replace the skeg, drop the board (in another yard where there's a travel lift instead of a trailer), pull the chainplates and all that hoo-rah. And I feel both boats need all of the plastic ports replaced with Newfounds. Both boats have water intrusion, little rot spots around a couple of the ports, and all are cracked hither and tither. There's another $3,000 or so.

As to skeg replacement, Hull #87 is just a hollow fairing/barnacle and clam collector. I looked it all over. With closed cell foam as an undersized mockup, I can probably fabricate an adequate skeg that would be set up to receive the pintle plate and bolts, then fair it to the hull and keel. No rocket science there. I did note that the blue hull has about a 4" gap in the rudder below the pintle plate, whereas the gap in #87 is only about 3/4", leading me to believe the blue one was redone without replacing that plug that was cut out. But it's a very clean repair, so i dont know.


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017 06:06 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 236
there is a T37 coming up for sale in my neighborhood that is fully offshore equipped. Send me a note if you would like me to put you in touch. The boat will be with a broker in the near future so that fee is still up for grabs. Chip@seltzerins.com


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017 10:01 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 17:21
Posts: 13
Attachment:
20150519_142047.jpg
Agreed, 1" OD pintal pin should be welded to the bar, as should the four SS hex bolts heads for attaching to hull. My pin (hull 419) was loose and the rudder moved around too much; I fabricated a new one in 2015. Both welded and also secured the pin with a 0.25" SS machine screw running port/stbd through the bar and pin. Tartan37.com website has instructions for removing rudder, involves some major surgery on the notch in the fiberglass leading edge of the rudder.


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2017 07:45 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 725
Location: Maine/USVI
Can't see photo, but I get it. One of these boats has the entire keel plug still in place, the other has it missing. I'm guessing the one where I can see the pin has had the bearing slide up inside the rudder stock. No bearing in sight. The other is obvious, but the pin floats up. Weld and machine screw through the pin seems prudent. Capturing the bearing so it doesn't disappear up into the rudder stock seems like a good idea as well.

The 1978 boat only has 3 bolts through the plate into the hull and the 1979 has 4 bolts.


 
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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017 15:44 
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Midshipman

Joined: 03 Jul 2017 11:52
Posts: 66
About to remove my rudder, read tutorial. However this boat is another story. Can anyone speculate what we are looking at here? Meaning why does it appear i have bolt/nuts going horizontal thru what appears to be reinforced pintle?


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 Post subject: Re: pintle pin floats up
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2017 14:24 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 18:12
Posts: 325
Yikes, that's not right. The skeg is sandwiched in place via the upward pressure of the flat bar and the hull, held in place by the 3 or 4 bolts. Maybe they installed the skeg after everything else was installed and they tapped into the bar to hold the skeg in place???

Richard


 
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