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 Post subject: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical System
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2017 14:17 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 23 Jun 2017 01:05
Posts: 27
Our offer was accepted on a 1979 Tartan 37 and we are awaiting paperwork.

In the meantime I'm mapping out the electrical system and determined the charging system needs much work (translated careful thought and money) Immediately we need an alternator and batteries.

The Balmar 100 amp model 91-100 alternator mounted on a Westerbeke 40 (Model 4-107 hours unknown) is not charging (bench tested and generating only 12 volts). The voltage regulator is an older ARS III model going through a West Marine 70/2 Battery Combiner to two heavily sulfated 6-volt batteries and two automotive 12-volt batteries.

My preliminary estimate is that worst case, I will consume less than 200 amp-hrs per 24-hours (I understand I'll need double that in the house bank capacity)

I'm considering rebuilding the old alternator and swapping existing batteries with cheap batteries to get us through the first two years ownership so we can start enjoying her, begin sailing and work on other important items. (rebuild kit $140 through PKYS or Defender.) I don't mind wisely spending money now to save money and troubles later and eventually, when the boat is sold I'd like to pass along a vessel with solid systems that the next owner can admire and feel confident and safe. We plan to own the boat and actively sail her for approximately the next 8-10 years.

Is the alternator worth rebuilding or should we be looking at something larger, newer or more efficient? I'm concerned about anything larger than 100-amps on the old engine might be too big and create other problems with belts, pulleys, bearings. (We're aware we can modify the engine mounts for a larger alternator with new pulleys and modified mounts but can't justify the extra expense at this time.)

My question to the experienced caretakers of these classics: Would I be throwing good money away rebuilding the alternator only to find out it's not capable of charging a 400-amp-hour House Bank? I've been following Maine Sail and Stu, read a book on marine electrics, and am trying to map together my current system to find weaknesses and to insure it is safe and capable for our needs. I'm not even sure at this juncture if the current wiring will support the already mounted 100-amp alternator and we have no info from the PO (Previous Owner)

Our near term plans are day sailing in San Francisco Bay with a few overnight trips, then venturing out further around the Farallon Islands to sea trial the systems in preparation for more ambitious travels. At some point we will add solar PV panels and a wind generator to our charging system, so forward compatibility is important.

I'm putting in the hours getting up to speed on electric theory, marine electrical systems and the work others have done. Why reinvent the wheel when others have proven reliable systems I can copy.

As I map out the system in the next few days I'll post what I'm finding with photos and hope we can stimulate some thoughtful conversation and suggestions that I might be able to translate into action.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Timoko


 
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 Post subject: Re: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical Sys
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017 23:26 
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Midshipman

Joined: 31 May 2017 22:18
Posts: 66
Location: Gulf of Mexico
Congrats on your recent purchase! We just closed on our 1979 vintage on Saturday, and took our first sail on Lake Michigan today. We had a steady 10-12 knots all day and had a blast.

We're eyeing a very similar usage with trials this summer in the lakes, and then a slide down the inland waterways to the gulf this fall with longer term cruising in the not-so-distant future. I'm still on what appears to be a stock alternator and would like to add solar/wind sooner than later, so I'm very interested in following your process. I don't feel I have the knowledge base with electrical systems to add much to your decision at the moment, but have been doing my research as well.


 
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 Post subject: Re: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical Sys
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017 11:30 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Holiday has stock alternator, 300 watts Renogy solar panels, only 240 amp hours of house battery, and a 40 amp mppt HQST charge controller. No wind generator.
Before purchasing and installing all this (and prior to moving aboard), I did all the estimating and figuring based on Nigel Calder's books and had determined that I needed 400-500 watts solar and that I might need to run my engine as much as 3-4 hours a day if too cloudy (because alternator not high output).
After getting opinions from more experienced cruisers, I decided that my estimations were very "worst case" and went with the above (first paragraph) system. Thinking I could always add solar, upgrade alternator, or add wind later.
Well, after living aboard for almost 9 months cruising and never once plugging in, we've only had to run the engine for charging at anchor maybe 5 or 6 times for a couple hours here and there (bear in mind, you end up motoring around every now and then too which helps). Mostly, I don't even have to check on batteries at all and when I do, they are above 40% in the morning, mostly above 50%. Our only big power draws are the DC fridge/freezer (we always have ice) and charging laptops. I did upgrade to a newer laptop with long battery life and less charging demands. Now that its summer, we also run fans constantly. I installed all LED bulbs and also insulated the fridge lids. We have also been cruising Florida and the Bahamas where sunshine is frequent.
If I were to make one change, the first would be more amp hours of batteries. The MPPT charger is so good, I find that I've reached trickle charge with plenty of sun left most days. With more amp hour capacity, we might have never needed to run the engine for charging but once or twice.

_________________
Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical Sys
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017 21:08 
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Skipper

Joined: 13 Feb 2011 21:19
Posts: 337
Location: Canyon Lake, TX
I'm running 190 watts over the helm seat and bimini down to a Sunsaver Duo charge controller to both the house and start banks. The Admiral and I really try to conserve energy so this works well for us. The Sunsaver Duo keeps both banks charged nicely. Enough so that we usually have the battery charger turned off at the dock.

_________________
Wayne
Master and Commander of the Sailing Vessel Impetuous
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.
Subservient to no man except SWMBO
Any day without dock lines is a GOOD day!


 
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 Post subject: Re: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical Sys
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017 15:57 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 656
I am not particularly enamored with Balmar stuff (I think it is over priced-exponentially-- and overmarketed and I do not find their folks particularly helpful) but if you can overhaul it yourself, it is probably no worse than other alternatives.
I would suggest that you be very careful to know your actual budget for daily use. I have lived half the year in SF Bay for the last 40 years an there are frightfully poor places to cruise around that area. You are probably going to maybe go to the Delta at some point, but overnights are the rule. If you subscribe to the "bigger is better" idea in electrical systems, you will find that the larger the bank is relative to your 50% usage, the longer the time it will take to top off your batteries. Smart chargers taper the charge a lot as they approach "full". This means that if you do not discharge your total bank to 50% it is going to take a loooooong time to get it anywhere near full. Of course you might be back in your slip at this point. I lived for many years (and still live) with two banks of 6V golf cart batteries and no starting batteries with an 80amp alternator and a smart charger. This is gross overkill for my cruises here in Maine where I am rarely going below 15% discharge. This means my batteries are chronically undercharged because my sophisticated "smart" regulator tapers the charge rate dramatically as we reach capacity. I am on a mooring--you will have no problem if you are returning regularly to your slip for shore charging. I suggest you talk with Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward. He is a live aboard battery genius who will set you up with what you need. I have never carried a starting battery and wonder why folks add that complication to their lives. You do need two banks in case one of them gets a bad cell, but beyond that the complications are just marketing for the folks to sell you more stuff to complicate your life.

Ray Durkee
T 37 #373


 
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 Post subject: Re: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical Sys
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017 00:43 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 23 Jun 2017 01:05
Posts: 27
Thank you all for your input, sharing your knowledge makes our community stronger and wiser. I'm proud to associate with you here. Title company can't assure a clear title so the purchase seems to be stalled for now. Regards. Timoko


 
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 Post subject: Re: 'New' 1979 Tartan 37 Alternator/Batteries/Electrical Sys
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017 16:13 
Offline
Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 23 Jun 2017 01:05
Posts: 27
Thank you Zach, Thank you Ray. The Tartan 37 purchase is still alive, seller agreed to additional concessions and broker thinks we can straighten out the title issue. Bigger is not better, bigger sometimes means bigger problems and increased costs. We have the opportunity to build our electrical charging, storage and distribution system from the drawing board to the boat and want to get it right and avoid expensive mistakes. We do plan to live aboard and cruise for at least six continuous months per year. Tentatively our first cruising destination is Mexico. Living in marinas tied to shore power is not our idea of cruising so electrical independence is important. Do you have photos or diagrams of your solar charging system, individual components that worked for your needs, costs and reasons for your choices? We have a rough idea of what's needed but must pin down a more accurate budget.


 
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