Water coming in question

zdunc · **Joined:** 24 Sep 2013 09:20 **Posts:** 393

So, in the quest for a dusty dry bilge, I've found a spot where water is coming in, but I don't know what is going on. I seemed to have water always underneath the mast that would eventually make its way back to the bilge and trigger the auto bilge pump. Since we are living aboard now, I've been paying even more attention. We just had the pipe and the hose replaced for the center board pennant so I doubted it was that. I did snug the hose clamps just in case. After a ton of drying and watching I found a spot in the bilge that is just producing water.? Is there somehow a hole in the boat? Help with any advice please. It takes a few days to even fill the small bilge area, but the thought of water coming in through a hole has me crazy. The spot is at the bottom right of the triangle shape in the picture. This triangle shape is in the bilge area just outside the head door. The top of the triangle looks like it may be where the front of the keel attaches? I have the C/B model. I'm sure of the origin. I have repeatedly dried it, then watched a bead of water slowly appear and trickle down. No moisture in any other directions. What's going on?

7165 · **Joined:** 01 Dec 2013 04:38 **Posts:** 31

Hi Zach,

My boat is a 1979 model and it does not have an access panel in the location shown. Just a thought... It looks like your floor (sole for the purists) has been redone and perhaps there were previous issues identified and the panel added so the area could be monitored.

I have a similar issue where there is always some water in the bilge. Two years ago while on the hard, I pulled out the generator and forgot to plug the diesel line, anyways about a gallon drained into the bilge. I did not know it at the time and when I came back to the boat I was surprised when I saw outside the boat, diesel at the base of the keel where the hollow part at the end starts to mate with the solid part. About 6 inches up I located a pinhole with diesel draining from it... coming from the gallon in the bilge. I was assuming the water in the bilge was coming top down not bottom up.

Perhaps if you live in a northern climate where your boat gets pulled seasonally, you could put some water in the bilge and see if it starts draining from some pinhole or other historical damage somewhere below the waterline that needs some revisiting.

Sorry if some think this idea is stupid..

7165 Cheers

Velera · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2006 09:38 **Posts:** 656

I am going to guess that you might have a pin hole in one of your head or sink through hull fittings. You could check this by getting everything dry and putting a paper towel down to map the leak.

Ray Durkee
T37 #373

zdunc · **Joined:** 24 Sep 2013 09:20 **Posts:** 393

I'm hoping it's something like a pin hole in a thru hole, but if it is, it's leaking under the first layer of bilge and re emerging at that dark spot in the triangle where I noted. I already dried everything completely and then watched the bead of water emerge from the floor. I know water is tricky though. Im still not sure. The head sink thru hull looks worse for wear and I had planned to replace all the hoses and clamps and inspect it in the water soon. Possibly change out on next haul out. But it is dusty dry down below it and i have checked w a paper towel. Could it be leaking at the base and going directly under the bilge floor and reemerging at the spot in the pics with no water in between? Anyone have any experience with something like this? I may have to end up seeing if water comes out somewhere when I haul out. Problem is I hadn't planned on hauling out soon. Wondering if this is just a nuisance or dangerous and to be taken care of right away?

zdunc · **Joined:** 24 Sep 2013 09:20 **Posts:** 393

Also, just want to make sure of something. The C/B model doesn't have a bolted on keel right? It's just part of the hull? So, no where for water to leak unless through a thru hull or a puncture?

cseltzjr · **Joined:** 16 May 2009 08:06 **Posts:** 236

The keel is not bolted on. I have 1981 hull 324 and it also has the access bilge cover in front of the head. It looks almost like there is the head of a rusty screw in a couple of those pictures? Also, you mentioned that you had the hose connecting the centerboard trunk to the stainless riser inside the mast replaced. Somewhere I read that that hose is actually connected to a bronze thru hull fitting that has had two sides of the outside ground off so that it would fit properly inside the centerboard trunk. I have heard of that thru hull failing (perhaps due to the torque associated with removing and replacing the hose) and I suppose it is possible that it could be introducing water into the laminate. As an aside, my boat has always collected water just forward of the mast but I am pretty sure it is not leaking in. Rather, running down the mast, etc. The area just forward of the mast is a "low spot" in the bilge and has always been wet.

zdunc · **Joined:** 24 Sep 2013 09:20 **Posts:** 393

I'm not sure what that button looking thing is at the top of the triangle. Something under the laminate. I'm imagining that this area is where the keel starts. Not sure if there is some hard ware down between that we are seeing. If that button is the top of the triangle, the water is originating from the bottom right hand corner of that triangle. The blackest area in the picture. It's salty water and if dried completely, you can watch a small bead form right away and trickle to the middle. I've dried it numerous times wondering if it's just trapped water from the settling in that low spot, but it keeps coming. Plus it's salty. The hose was changed with the mast out and the pipe piece removed and replaced. I think everything is OK with it. Another thing about it somehow coming from a thru hull is it's slightly on the high side to starboard and the bathroom is to port. Could be the transducers but the area around them is bone dry. Before we moved aboard, I had always thought it was just looking from water coming down the mast and condensation. I'm stumped. Seems crazy that there would somehow be a puncture on the outside and making its way through to the inside. Thinking that area would be solid, not balsa?

Velera · **Joined:** 29 Dec 2006 09:38 **Posts:** 656

I have a hard time understanding the exact location of the leaking spot from the pictures. If you have water quickly returning to the spot and it is dry all around you could have had a void somewhere in the glass lay up. Water will run through fiberglass cracks and under paint. Have you hit something with the board down? are there any visible cracks in the root of the keel? I would not worry about the balsa as it stops at least a foot above the keel--it is all glass near the centerline.

I chased such a dribble for a few years until I finally found the pinhole in the through hull fitting. The water was taking a very meandering journey to the bilge and dripping very slowly. After fixing I had a bone dry bilge until this fall. I hit an uncharted rock at 7kts and did $13K damage that will need to be repaired over the winter. I have the deep fin keel version that draws 6'8". While it was a horrible thing, I am impressed that all I got out of it was a leak that was about a cup every three days. I kept the boat in the water and sailed it. The root of the keel looks like hell, but it is one tough boat.

Many years ago, I stripped all the gelcoat off my bottom and found some voids in the lay up in one section. They had not leaked or caused any problem, but if there had been even a pinhole in one of the outer layers their might have been a similar problem.

Keep at it and you will find it. You are not going to sink.

Ray Durkee

Ganzie · **Joined:** 21 May 2015 16:43 **Posts:** 16

I had a similar issue but in the aft section behind the deepest section of the bilge. There was a crack in the gell coat and water would just start beading up from the crack. I had just splashed the boat for the first time after purchasing it on the hard and working on it for about 6mo. so I made the decision to pull it back out and find out what was going on.The first thing I noticed when it was pulled from the water was there seemed to be a lot of water coming from the bottom aft section of the keel as you might know this section of the keel is actually a hollow false section. What I found was a quarter size hole from a bad grounding repair so water was entering the false section. To see if that was the source of my interior leak I chipped away some of the gell coat form the area of the bilge (I also found thats where the lead is poured) and hooked up a venturi vacuum to the hole in the keel. I found that pouring liquid(tears from freaking out) in that bilge area would be immediately sucked down with the vacuum on.
So what I found after deciding to cut away the false keel section was some interior delamination and water was working its way up between the lead and laminate.
The fix was first drying every thing out using the venturi vac attached to the keel. Also pulling acetone thru (without blowing up the boat) this all took several days.Then I chipped away all the gell coat from the top of the lead in the bilge and pulled thinned epoxy thru until it would no longer flow.I glassed over the lead and then turned my attention to the keel. I decided not to replace the false keel section but copy a repair I found on this site.
I have no idea if your have anything near this type of problem but I do know now that water can migrate thru the laminate if there is keel damage.
When I first read your post I didn't want to reply because all this sounds so scary but really it wasn't that bad and as of today one year later I have cobwebs in my bilge. Just remember boats are fiberglass and can be fixed.

zdunc · **Joined:** 24 Sep 2013 09:20 **Posts:** 393

Thanks for the info Ray. I haven't hit anything with the board down or had any hard groundings. I'm due for a bottom job this year so will have it all checked then. I bet there is a hole or delamination somewhere.

Ganzie, I actually hadn't mentioned it because it is only an ooze of moisture that is barely detectable, but I do have a small line in that same area that seems wet (picture attached). I bet I have the same thing going on, but in a small way. I'll have that adressed too when I have my bottom work.

Also going to check all this out myself when I get to some clearer water down in the Keys in the next month. Currently on a mooring in Naples, FL. Probably not much I'll be able to tell in the water though. Will report back. In the mean time, if anyone else has any info or finds something similar, post it up.

Tartan37.com

Water coming in question

Who is online