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 Post subject: "Clunking" Noise from Rudder
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2015 16:08 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
Help!!! I have a "clunking" noise coming from my rudder, and I've down everything I can think of to identify and fix the problem, except have the boat hauled, which I'm not sure would help anyway. Hopefully, someone has had the same problem, and has found the solution.

The symptoms are perplexing. If I spin the rudder back and forth on the mooring, the rudder swings back and forth effortlessly. However, if I turn the rudder hard left, then hard right when the boat is moving at a decent speed, I feel the rudder catch at the mid position and when I move the rudder past that position I will hear a "clunk." Significantly, I think, I does not catch or "clunk" if I turn the rudder back left, and pass through that same position. I doesn't do it all the time, but does it most when there is a good lateral load on the rudder while turning hard. Oddly enough though, it occurs at the mid position, when the lateral load is minimum (i.e., the rudder is sheltered from the dynamic water load by the skeg). Oddly enough also, it only does it almost entirely when I turn right, and very rarely if ever if I turn left.

I've been chasing this for about 3 weeks now, and I've already done the following:

1. Barnacles: My first though was that I may have some barnacles causing the problem, in particular, in the areas around the 'flaps' that overlap the top of the rudder above the skeg. I could envision the stiff "flap" getting hung up on a barnacle, which would only act one way and could account for it only happening when turning in one direction. But doesn't explain why it doesn't hang up when not moving. Anyway, I went overboard twice, did find barnacles, cleared them away. I also checked for barnacle interference at the skeg, and removed any possible issues.... but "clunking" still continues.

2. Steering Gear: I replaced all the significant moving parts: sprocket, steering shaft bearing, chain and cable, sheaves and sheave shaft pins. No change.

3. Pintle: My pintle was rebuilt this last fall. Inspected it under water. Seemed fine.

4. Upper Bearing (packing):Repacked it a few weeks back. Nothing was unusual.

5. Lateral Movement of Rudder: Checked it as best I could while in the water, but seemed OK. Only slight movement to the degree I expected.

6. Autopilot Hydraulic Ram: Disconnected it from tiller on rudder. "clunk" still remained, so it's not coming from that unit.

Well, now I'm stumped. Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks.

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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA


 
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 Post subject: Re: "Clunking" Noise from Rudder
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2015 22:41 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 14 Jan 2014 18:32
Posts: 39
cable attachment point on steering quadrant?
Bolts loose on one side of quadrant?


 
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 Post subject: Re: "Clunking" Noise from Rudder
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2015 09:18 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
Dave-
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. This weekend I'll try to put a load on the rudder with someone manually turning the rudder. Not sure how successful I'll be with the boat in the water.

This may be wishful thinking but I'm hoping the rudder internals are OK. The previous owner replaced the rudder 10 years ago so it's relatively new. I've also had no indication of water intrusion yet. As an aside, the rudder still has incredible buoyancy. Could be the result of the foam in the core. I had thought if it were water logged it would have negative buoyancy but perhaps not.

My boat has an under deck autopilot with its own rudder attached to the rudder post. I still get the 'clunking' while using the autopilot. The manual steering system is still in play, but not under load so as you suggested that may rule out the binding in the steering system, which I've pretty much concluded now.

Again, thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted.

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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA


 
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 Post subject: Re: "Clunking" Noise from Rudder
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2015 09:37 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 656
If it still does it with the autopilot, seems safe to eliminate all the steering gear components as the cause. Can you feel the clunk when steering, or just hear it?. If you can feel the clunk as well as hear it, seems like you would know it was in the rudder or its fittings. If not, I was wondering if the clunk might be something like loose bolts on your strut. They could be loose and not leak much. I think you said you dove the boat--did you pick up a pot buoy on your strut. They clunk against the hull and can live amazingly out of sight if they are trapped in just the right place. I picked a stray up once that someone had cut and did not find it by just looking at my prop from above.

I think your rudder would still have buoyancy even if it was filled with water. Maybe not, but I do not think there is enough steel in there to offset even the saturaated foam. Some rudders sink, but the T37 is a giant mass of foam.

FWIW. Let us know how this comes out.

Ray


 
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 Post subject: Re: "Clunking" Noise from Rudder
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2023 10:33 
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Navigator

Joined: 06 Sep 2020 10:08
Posts: 99
We also started noticing a clunking noise when we turned the wheel hard over on either side. Our problem is a little different from the original post because the noise happens near the limits of travel. Turns out the quadrant had worked its way down about half an inch on the rudder post. Some of the bolt heads for the steering cables and the hard-stop plate were hitting the two stiffener ribs on the hull. They've actually worn away notches in the top of the stiffeners.

The good news is that it was easy to fix: after loosening the 4 bolts that clamp the quadrant to the rudder post, my wife could push up the quadrant from below to the proper location. Tighten the bolts and we're good to go until it works its way down again.

FWIW, we also see cracks between the rudder post and the two aft stiffeners, a lot like the ones here: http://www.tartan37.com/t37forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1751. At some point in the future when we repair the stiffener ribs we'll fix those too.

It seems likely that the quadrant started its slow walk downwards after I installed our new autopilot http://www.tartan37.com/t37forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2062. I'm thinking the right solution is to put a pin or bolt through both the quadrant and the rudder post to prevent any vertical motion.


Attachments:
File comment: Notch worn through the top of port, aft stiffener rib
PXL_20230616_000139179.jpg
PXL_20230616_000139179.jpg [ 2.02 MB | Viewed 0 times ]
File comment: Quadrant has slipped downwards about 1/2" on the rudderpost
PXL_20230523_210717301.jpg
PXL_20230523_210717301.jpg [ 1.99 MB | Viewed 0 times ]
 
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