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 Post subject: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2019 19:58 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 03 Jul 2017 11:52
Posts: 40
8 thru hulls to be plugged or updated. Looking for opinions from salty owners about what I should plug and what I should keep.

Venue: NC to FL Keys, Carib, Bahamas

Head: Got rid of toilet(going to composting). Probably keep head sink and its thru hull. Toilet to sea and macerator thru hulls tbd. Could these be used for deck wash or water maker?

At the front of the boat I had a depth transducer and a large deck wash thru hull. I have an extra depth transducer on hand so that should probably going back in.

Deck wash importance? Cleaning anchor? Worthy of own thru hull?

Speed log.. ?

Engine inlet: seemed very small like 3/4". Reducer on water pump inlet. Maybe it should be 1".. Groco has a thruhull/screen one piece unit. What I originally had was a regular thru hull and a screen cover screwed onto it. Seems like that option would allow me to clean it out easier or at least without having to pull the thru hull.

Galley sink drain.. this was a huge thru hull! Why did they make it so big? Well that's an easy one anyway, just expensive.

In general think I will do the Groco thru hulls recessed or flanged with the triangle shaped nut piece inside, not the one with the valve, then screw the valve on that.

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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2019 11:10 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 210
Location: Maine/USVI
I think what you'll find is all the thru hulls (most anyway) are through solid glass. I've seen where owners have put in "new" through the balsa panels in the hull. If this isn't done just right, big problems. I have only glanced at these, but note that they are not backed, and, from the factory, simply groco style valves on the the thru hull. Certainly not ABYC standards. Likewise, I've seen a few marelon valves installed that I . . . just . . . can't . . . bring myself to do. The placement of the ones in the head and the by the engine do not lend themselves to proper base and backing installation. Not enough room. When I "worked" the ones in the head, they don't seem to cause flex in the hull, but I wouldn't build a boat like that. Hmmm. Most seem too small for the job, as well. I wouldn't hesitate to put lipped thru hulls back in instead of the flush mount units after renewing the holes properly. Saltwater deck wash would be nice, and is in my plan. The less holes the better.


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2019 17:37 
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Rail Meat

Joined: 16 Jan 2019 08:52
Posts: 22
Does anyone use the Trudesign valves and skin fittings? I replaced all my Groco (37 years old) and went with all Trudesign kit on a Formosa (Peterson) 46 in Hong Kong. The Grocs were still good but the new gear just seemed to be so much neater and responsive. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. And when I haul soon I will try to add a couple with each opportunity.#337


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2019 20:29 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 522
I tee’d my wash down pump off the sink drain and it works fine. The added value of that location is that you have an accessible place to mount the pump and its filter and an easy run to the deck up through the adjoining port hanging locker so that it exits next to the waste washout. This keeps the washdown hose out of the way of your rode and gear when you are retrieving. Don’t buy the smallest washdown pump—buy the biggest—you want a sharp stream and you have access to the whole ocean so you do not care about wasting water here.

The 3/4” engine intake is too small. Yanmar will not warranty their engines with anything less than 1” and I probably would go to 1.25” if I was doing it again. I cannot answer why they put the huge through hull on the galley sink, but it is nice to have it drain fast—I would leave it. One of the problems is that, unless this thru hull is closed when you are pounding to windward on port tack, it can turn the sink drains into a pump that brings the ocean inside. There is no way I could fix this.

I found glass everywhere where thru hulls were located (no balsa) and you are going to have to lay up some layers of glass glass to reset your new thru hull fittings as they are not going to fit the old holes and you will likely not be able to use the old ones to center your new ones, so I do not see the value of a backing plate. You know never to use plywood or any kind of wood for backing. But I think that resetting them allows you to set things up much better when you are glassing them in. I made sure everything mated nicely by mixing up some epoxy spluge of West 403, found some scrap fiberglass backing plates, and used some mold release wax to make sure the new all mated well inside and out and that the nuts went down on an absolutely flat surface of the hull. After it set up—I removed them and put 4200 (I do not use 5200 on anything that might need to be removed in the future) on the whole thing, removed the mold release wax and installed them. My thru hulls were flush—not sure if that was standard, but that is the way I replaced mine. Sort of a PIA, but really did not take long to fair them in with 406. I do not like extra thru hull fittings of any kind as I have suggested so I would not put in anything you do not need. I would also consider a manafold if you need multiple intakes—as they do on the expensive yachts to avoid multiple through hull fittings. You may have a bit of difficulty with the engine intake as it takes a 90 degree turn right away—it would be hard to relocate it or replace it with a huge Groco, but you will figure that out. Measure your options before you buy. I have never understood the practicality of the Grocos that require three bolts through the hull to secure them. The problem is that the straight Groco thru hull stems have a different thread than NPT—so putting a ball valve on them is iffy unless you have the threads machined to match (which can be done as they are close). I think there is a warning about this in the Groco package. Personally, I like marine quality ball valves over the huge Grocos—they seem like they were engineered for wooden boats of another time—and seem to require regular maintenance which the ball valves not. BTW—the ball valves in Home Depot look like they would work, but they are NOT marine quality. Do not use them.


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2019 09:23 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 210
Location: Maine/USVI
I agree with Velera. Years ago I put a marelon valve under the sink drain tail just to shut it off when not in use. The "marine valves" vs. groco style are pricey, pricey units. I put them in one of my boats, but cheesed out on the next 2 and went with Groco style. And the less holes the better. Watched one of those Youtube people pounding to wind awhile back in the Bahamas, drove the plastic transducer in the bow thru the threaded receiver, big leak. Big leak. Fire hose leak. I have used wood backing plates, heavily epoxied, and never had a problem. Starboard might be a good approach. The 3 holes in the Groco bases I have used both to drill straight through the hull and bolt with flathead bolts or simply screw the base into a backing plate. It's just to keep the valve from turning accidentally, which, even without the screws or bolts, I've never seen happen. I see greater possibility for issues with Tartan's factory groco installs on the thru hull nipples.


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2019 17:25 
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Skipper

Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 209
Regarding: "One of the problems is that, unless this thru hull is closed when you are pounding to windward on port tack, it can turn the sink drains into a pump that brings the ocean inside. There is no way I could fix this."

I have an in-line valve under the sink on the vertical drop to the seacock that is in the engine area. It's easier to get to than accessing the engine area.

It is a nuisance though to not have sinks that can drain. Last time I had water coming up in the outward leeward sink, it looked like the drain of the inboard sink was high enough to keep water out, so it is possible that a ball valve installed in the horizontal run in the drain between the two sinks could allow the inboard sink to drain while keeping seawater out of the outer sink.

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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2019 06:17 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 210
Location: Maine/USVI
I had a friend whose boat sank (an old wooden sloop) in Hancock, Maine years ago because of the sink. It was on a mooring and a constant chop started the pumping.


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019 06:55 
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Skipper

Joined: 04 Aug 2013 13:33
Posts: 209
A good example of why everything below the waterline needs to be hose rated for use below waterline with doubled hose clamps.

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Lunacy #198
Tampa, FL


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019 12:16 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Aug 2017 15:35
Posts: 210
Location: Maine/USVI
Well, yeah, but it could've been solid stainless steel pipe from sink to hull and still sunk. It was an open line, and a siphon got created by bouncing in a chop on the mooring.


 
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 Post subject: Re: 8 thru hulls removed, now what.. :D
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019 14:25 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 03 Jul 2017 11:52
Posts: 40
Thanks so much for the thoughtful replies! Cheers Going to be closing up any unnecessary holes and borrowing idea to use head sink drain for the sea water to deck wash.

Re clamps on thru hulls and water lines I am finding where there isn't enough room on a nipple to get two clamps. Has anyone seen a thinner band clamp or used a wire clamp like this (https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsst ... i_larg.jpg) where you could stack two together?

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