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 Post subject: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2014 15:06 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
So, I had water leaking through my forward hatch. I read on the forum about how it is poorly designed and how some have changed to thru bolting, etc. I removed the hatch, scraped and cleaned, and resealed. It seemed to me though that my port side hatch latch thingy might be leaking also. I tried to take out the set screw to check it out, but of course the head stripped. I used my tool for removing screws with stripped heads and of course the bolt broke off. So I drilled at it some and couldn't get it drilled out yet. Before I go all ninja on it, I thought I'd make sure it is actually leaking after my re sealing job cures. My question is, has anyone else had the latches leak and had to repair them? Where are the gaskets in the latch? I successfully took the starboard one apart (first picture), and I found a few plastic washers. I can see plastic washers on the port side too, but they don't seem to be anything but spacers. Am I chasing something that isn't a problem? Is there an easy fix? Are there replacement parts? Any help appreciated.


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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014 09:36 
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
The hatch latches have a seal much like the shaft seal on most small pump's like the Jabsco raw water pump. I rebuilt my hatch about 9 years ago and chose not to replace them. Have had no leaks for the last 9 years so I'd suggest they're unlikely sources. Aside from the bedding of hatch assembly, the most likely leakage source would be the hatch seal. You can buy replacement seal material from A&H. It's pricey but works well. That seal can also leak if it's not compressed enough. You can increase the compression by appropriately placing the plastic spacers on the handle shaft. To do this, you'll need to remove the aluminum knobs. As you've found, the bolt attaching the knob to the shaft will be hopelessly corroded and will need to be drilled out. When I did this, I replaced the aluminum knobs with black plastic knobs I bought from McMaster -Carr. If you're interested in the design contact me via back channel.

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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA


 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014 07:16 
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 656
I agree with Jim that the latches may not be leaking--although they will appear to do so from the condensate and salt that they would collect. I think the forward hatches on Tartans do need periodic attention:
Why?
The A&H hatches are cast (not extruded like many of the replacements) and do not move much with the twisting of the hull in nasty weather. So there is stress on the screws and bedding around them. I have owned my T37 for 22 years and sailed it in a lot of nasty stuff and have had to attend to this once to stop leaking.
Some folks have replaced the hatches. I would think this is fine, but if you read the follow up, does not always solve the problem as extruded hatches can deform and you have a major issue that is not easily solved.
Others have suggested through bolting the A & H hatches when rebedding them. I considered this, but every hole through the deck is an opportunity for water to leak inside. So when I redid mine (at a dock in Mazatlan) I drilled out the screw holes, filled them with epoxy, and put new screws (try finding those in Mazatlan!) into the deck. No more leaks since then--8 years and a lot of miles. Actually, what I thought was a deck leak through the grab rail was solved with this repair, because water was apparently leaking in through a screw hole and weeping down on to the top of the hanging locker.
The deck twists under pressure and that is a fact of the design--or at least on my boat. How you deal with the hatches is your decision, but I think that the A&H are solid if not pretty and Tartan, whom I originally faulted for not through bolting them, was thinking this through correctly.
FWIW.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014 08:03 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
I guess my next step will be to drill out that screw and have a look. My hatch seal looks/feels really good, I think I did a good job with the rebedding although I am new to this, and the latches seem to put a good amount of pressure on the latch seal when twisted, but I guess it could be water getting in due to needing more plastic spacers. I tested after the seal cured yesterday, and it really seems like the leak is through that latch. The only place there is water is where it is pooled on top of the white plastic washers and below the black piece where the latch comes through (see the second picture) and then dripping down the metal handle. The first picture shows as far as I took the starboard latch apart. Once I get to there, what else is entailed with completely disassembling it? Does the metal piece just pull out with some force? What else will I find in there? I am a total rookie here and don't even know what the shaft seal on most small pump's like the Jabsco raw water pump is. Thanks for any help or suggestions.

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Zach Duncan
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Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014 10:27 
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
Once you get the knob off, the handle should pull right out. The seal is pressed slightly into a recess in the acrylic. The black circular device around the handle shaft on your first picture is the seal. There should be numbers /letters on it which designate it's size/type. With these, you should be able to easily find a replacement on the Internet.

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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA


 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014 11:36 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Thanks so much for all the info. Think I'll be back at the boat next weekend and will report back with what I find.

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Zach Duncan
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Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014 14:39 
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006 22:56
Posts: 171
Location: Portland, Oregon
AH will rebuild your hatches... for a price! I think my quote from them for the rebuild was around $1400.00. That included new acrylic, new gaskets, and re-anodizing for both hatches.

I decided to replace them with Hood stainless steel hatches as others have on this list. They match up nicely with the NewFound Metals portlights and the stainless cabin top rail upgrades I've done.

The Hoods latching mechanism is not as good as the original hatches, but they look fabulous and don't leak. BTW, I used butyl rubber to bed the new hatches. Works wonders!

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Jay

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Jay and Muki Kerr
Tartan 37 Betty Lou (formerly Rainbow)
Hull # 118, fin keel
St. Helens, OR
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2014 17:08 
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
New thought here after some investigating. I think the water may be getting in between the lens and the frame. I noticed it in another place and realized this could be the same thing that is happening next to the port side hatch latch in question. It would definitely result in the same type leak I am seeing (looking like the latch is leaking), and would go along with the doubts that the other posters have had that the latch is the problem. Where I see the water coming in is in the first two pictures. The other place is the earlier one I posted about in the second two pictures. Does what I am thinking sound right? Anyone attempted removing the lens and resealing? What are the steps? The compound between the lens and the frame looks to be a black rubber like (gasket?) substance and then there is the silver tape lining the top of the lens (last picture). It seems to me the silver tape should be keeping the water out currently. Is it just a matter of replacing that? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Zach


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Zach Duncan
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Hull# 280
 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2014 06:09 
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
Well it's certainly possible that the leak is occurring at the acrylic to hatch seal. If so, I'd suggest you replace the acrylic. From your pictures it seems yours is getting cloudy. I don't recall the silver tape on mine but to remove the acrylic lens simply remove it by cutting the seal with a construction knife, box cutter or something similar. Once the lens is removed, remove the old sealant completely from the hatch groove. I used a wire brush on my drill press to do this . Clean the hatch groove with something like acetone after all the sealant is removed.

Find someone to fabricate a new acrylic lens. I can send you who I used back channel. I did mine about 9 years ago so I'm not sure they're still in business.

Sealing the lens to the hatch isn't too hard. I used GE Ultra Glaze, which was recommended by the provider of the lens. Before you install the lens, place masking tape around the hatch and lens so you can create a nice clean line at the groove after the sealant is applied. Before you install the lens, you can cut the masking tape with a razor blade on the hatch and lens to create that clean line.

To install the lens place a very thin layer of sealant on the horizontal lip of the hatch. You want it thin so that you minimize the amount that will squeeze out on the underside/ inside of the lens. Once this is done, carefully place the lens into the hatch groove making sure it's reasonably centered. Place something relatively heavy on the lens to keep it firmly in place. Now fill the groove completely with sealant. I had a large bolt round bolt head that I used to run around the groove to create a slightly concave surface on the sealant. Use something like mineral spirits to keep the bolt head 'tool' wet to make forming the groove simpler. Once you're happy with the sealant surface ' s appearance, remove the masking tape on the lens and hatch to create the clean line. You're done! Just let the sealant cure.

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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA


 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatch Sealing
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2014 06:23 
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Joined: 09 Jul 2008 12:51
Posts: 251
I had a river flowing down my forward hatch last year when it rained. After reading in a previous post about seal material I ordered a seal from A&H. I installed it and it really helped but on REALLY heavy rain it still leaked. My solution was.... I purchased some liquid gasket sealer. It was black stuff and I spread it over the entire seal area, let it dry until it was very nappy and closed the hatch. I didn't reopen the hatch for one or two weeks. When I did the sealer had made a water tight seal and I've had no leaks since even in a 12 inch rain that we had here in Gulf Shores last Spring. I will admit the black gasket sealer was a bit messy, like a tar baby so if you decide to use something like it be careful not to get any on your hands/clothes.


 
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