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 Post subject: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2020 06:38 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 384
For the first time in 7 years of ownership, I started the W50, it ran for 2 seconds then shut off. Like there was air in the lines for some reason. I went through the entire bleed process numerous times with no luck. Not even sounding like it's about to fire up. Got frustrated and decided to try again the next day.

I hadn't done any fuel filter changes or anything to the fuel system that would add air to the system. So, something happened/changed in the 2 weeks since I last started it.

Are there other culprits I need to check? Or am I just not bleeding it good?

Incidentally, I am in St Maarten in the lagoon and have bought a new Yanmar. I literally only need it to run one more time to get me the quarter mile from anchor to the dock one week from now. Was only starting it up because I was about to post it for sale and wanted to clear out any exhaust smoke in case someone wanted to come watch it run.

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2020 06:56 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 157
Fuel, air and compression. When you are bleeding the engine you are getting the high pressure fuel from the injector lines so the fuel part is accounted for. You are getting compression (or the motor would freewheel when the starter is spinning). Air comes in through the the intake valve which is opened by pushrod / camshaft. Can you open the oil fill cap and see if the rockers are working when you spin the starter? I forget if that is gear driven or chain driven but you might have a broken cam or cam drive component? Hopefully there is a much simpler explanation that just isnít occurring to me.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2020 07:08 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 384
But I'm not positive on the bleeding. Points 1, 2 , and 3 that I work with the electric bleeding pump are definitely spewing fuel. Point 4 that bleeds with the starting motor gives out some fuel, but I'm never positive if it's really bleeding correct. Then there's points 5 (the injector nuts), I can ever tell if there is much fuel going there. Is it a visible amount when done correctly? Maybe I'm not cranking for long enough? How long is normal?

What about that fuel pressure switch? I've never done anything with it. I've read other people say it fails. What are the symptoms for it failing?

I'm also wondering about a leak on the vacuum side. Maybe all the fuel is draining back to the tank and air getting in?

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2020 07:12 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 384
One other thing. I have an alarm that goes with fuel pressure on start up. It usually goes off when using the electric bleeding pump after a few seconds. I am finding that I have to run it for about a minute before the alarm goes. Making me think that fuel is draining back to the tank or something like that and takes longer for pressure to build.

Just guessing on that. But does this symptom indicate anything to anyone?

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2020 07:14 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 384
Also, I did see air bubbles at point 1 (the on engine filter) the first time I tried to bleed it. I think maybe at point 2 as well but can't remember for sure.

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020 05:58 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Jul 2008 12:51
Posts: 250
I had a similar problem a while back.. I was getting plenty of fuel to the injector nuts, did the bleed process, new glow plugs, changed filters, new starter battery... nothing worked. This old gal needed lots of push to build pressure before turning over. A new starter did the trick. Fires up now in less than 5 seconds but I can't say that's your problem it just sounds like the problem I had.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020 06:11 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 157
Mikeís answer is a lot more palatable than mine! As far as the bleed process is concerned, I think I pretty much just worked from the injectors (it has been a long time since I had to bleed the engine). If I remember correctly, I opened the bolt on the top of the injector and spun the starter until I got a strong squirt of fuel and I tightened the bolt while the starter was spinning. At some point, the motor would catch when I tightened a bolt. Again Iím working from a pretty sketchy memory and Iíll bet it has been 10 years since I had to do it. Now, Esprit has been sitting unattended for 2 winters and one sailing season so I can only imagine that I have some fun coming this spring. I hope this works for you.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020 14:07 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2010 10:24
Posts: 169
Hi Zack,wouldnít be something like the shut off solenoid messed up?
On curfew in Green turtle!

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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020 11:55 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 384
Still stumped and still working on it. I'm thinking hole in the copper fuel tubing on the vacuum side after the racor but not 100%. It could be a bunch of things I guess. I'm getting all new fuel lines with the new engine. I'm close to giving up and just getting a tow to the lift to start the new engine install.

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Zach Duncan
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 Post subject: Re: Bleeding problem or something else?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020 17:50 
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Midshipman

Joined: 16 Jan 2019 08:52
Posts: 63
I think you are right on with your last idea. If you have a new motor bought and paid for use your time to get the Westie out and on the dock and use you time to paint up the engine area in preparation for the new engine. With the westie on the dock I thinK you would sort out the problem quick enough standing erect with some shade and a cold beer. Good luck with the refit. #337


 
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