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 Post subject: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018 10:45 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
I've always noticed a little diesel on the oil diaper in the sump under the high pressure pump/injectors area, and never looked into it as it wasn't getting worse. However, after motor sailing up the ICW for about 15 hours the last couple of days, I just checked and the entire diapers are pretty saturated with diesel.

Before I start digging into it, any guidance as to the likely culprit and likely fix? This will be my first time working on the high pressure side (I've never even bled the engine). So, I'm not real familiar. Also, would this be something I need to address before even starting the engine again or is it more of a nuisance thing? It was running fine with no problems. Thanks for any help.

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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018 18:14 
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Skipper

Joined: 13 Feb 2011 21:19
Posts: 337
Location: Canyon Lake, TX
I consider it a nuisance. But diesel fuel not in the piping stinks up your whole boat. So I would track it down and stop it if possible.

My injection pump had a slight leak on one of the control arms. I can't remember if it was the throttle or the shutoff. Simple fix. Just back off the nut securing the arm, pull the arm off, remove the leaking o-rings and reinstall everything. Yeah. No problem. Except that the nut was frozen or Locktite secured to the shaft. Sheared the shaft. Handed the nut to the Admiral and told her that was a $1000.00 nut. Ended up being $1200.00 for the rebuild but the report back was I needed to rebuild the pump with all the issues going on inside.

After that horror story, my advice is to look both control arms for your leak first. Then check the bleed points. These are the places that get moved most. By controlling the engine or a bleed down after losing suction. The tubing fittings between the pump and the injectors are the easiest to correct and usually not the culprit.

If you find the leak on the controls and you decide to pull the pump yourself, mark the flange connection between the pump and the engine with an alignment mark. I did not do that and when I reinstalled the pump, the engine would spew white smoke out the exhaust. A diesel mechanic listened to my tale of woe and helped me. We loosened the mounting bolts on the pump and twisted the pump a few degrees then restarted the engine and checked the results. After three or four attempts, the smoke cleared up completely.

All you were asking for was the third paragraph but I thought you should know some of the pitfalls that can bite you.

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Wayne
Master and Commander of the Sailing Vessel Impetuous
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.
Subservient to no man except SWMBO
Any day without dock lines is a GOOD day!


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018 05:02 
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Skipper

Joined: 09 Jul 2008 12:51
Posts: 251
I had a leak on the accelerator arm toggle. It started small then ran like a river. If you're lucky you might just have a leak in one of the high pressure lines leading off the injection pump or around an injector/glow plug. Get a little mirror and check for leaks while the engine is running. You may have to craw under the sink and use the inspection access "window" to get a better look.

If it turns out to be leaking AT the injection pump and not a fitting that can be tightened, I'm afraid you'll need to pull it and have it repaired as indicated above. Find a good diesel pump repair shop (ask around, ask marinas where they take their business). It could be a simple Oring but since you have the monster out I would see about a rebuild. A simple rebuild kit repair can run you $350-600, a total rebuild (if issues inside) can run as indicated in the other post ($1200). Changing an injection pump is a real pain in the stern. It's a two person job. (handy if you have a very small person to craw under the sink too).

I also would like to stress (before you take the unit off) to score where it's location is on the mount. The location controls your engine timing so it's important to put it back exactly where it was when you took it off. Score it on all sides.

Once it's back on. Getting the air out can be frustrating. Be sure you have your batteries charged to the max, you'll need them to be. Ether/starter fluid may help. Don't get discouraged if you can't get it started in the same day that you reconnect everything. Loosen one of the high pressure injector lines at the top at the injector,,,leave it and go home, get a good night's sleep and try it the next day. You'd be surprised how many times I've done that; air seems to work it's way out during the night.

Good luck


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018 18:49 
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Skipper

Joined: 16 May 2009 08:06
Posts: 236
I think you have a W50 in your boat. In my case, the leak was from the fuel pressure switch. $15 at an auto parts store. After the second one went, I replaced it with a brass plug and wired the circuit to a key switch at the control panel.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018 06:14 
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Skipper

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 15:36
Posts: 268
Last year the fuel pressure switch on my W50 failed, sprayed fuel in the engine compartment. Didn't notice it until I could smell the diesel fuel from the cockpit. Ultimately, sprayed about 12 gal of fuel into the bilge. Fortunately, my auto bilge pump didn't activate.

I also replace that switch with a plug, and rewired the the system with a toggle switch on the control panel. That pressure switch is an accident waiting to happen.

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Jim Voelxen
Odyssey #191
Home Port: Osterville, MA


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018 07:21 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Yep, W50. Thanks for all the great tips. We are off the boat seeing family. Going to dig into the problem on Thursday and will let everyone know what I'm finding.

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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018 20:32 
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Skipper

Joined: 29 Dec 2006 09:38
Posts: 656
I would wipe down everything with some Simple Green (smells good and dries clean) and paper towels so you can determine where it is happening. Pray in it is not the injector pump. Tighten as indicated. If it on the pump, I would suggest that you not try to take anything apart. There is very little inside this pump (tightening connections is OK) that the shade tree mechanic should be messing with. Leaks in this pump generally indicate the need for a rebuild by a professional diesel shop. You can pull it out, but I would advise against taking it apart if you are not a skilled and experienced machinist. Diesel leaks are a pisser to chase down as the stuff can show up a long way from the leak source.
Check the connectors and lines between the injector pump and the injectors. This is where the very high pressure in your system occurs. ‘
FWIW.
Ray Durkee
T37 Velera


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018 10:24 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Ok all, I wiped down everything with simple green and changed out my sump diapers. Then we ran the engine while I watched, used an inspection mirror, and dabbed with a paper towel at the connections. We tried at high idle all the way up to 2400 rpms (in neutral as we are tied to a mooring currently). I couldn't find any smoking gun while checking all the areas mentioned. At best, a couple of the connections were "juicy" and couldn't positively identify the juice as diesel over simple green or some old oil or a mixture of the three. Also, we ran the diesel for about 20 minutes and no pink diesel stain made it down to any diaper.

So, either our totally soaked diapers were just because we are running the diesel more (50 hours since last diaper change) going up the ICW. Or, some event happened that leaked excess diesel then fixed itself (doesn't seem likely). I'm surprised that I didn't see anything obvious though but maybe the diesel on the diapers was less than it looked?

At any rate, I decided not to even tighten any connections yet thinking I didn't want to make anything worse if in fact the diesel leaks are the same as they have been for over 500 hours of our ownership with no running problems associated. We don't have a noticeable diesel smell, so it really is just a nuisance at this point. Going to monitor the diapers when we get underway toward Fernandina on Saturday. Any thoughts?

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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2018 17:50 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
Ok, while under way, I found a very small drip coming from around the # 1 injector line fitting on the pump body. The one that is hidden under the pump and hard to see or get to. Just a drip every 5-10 minutes. So, we got to our anchorage where ICW meets the St Johns, and I worked on tightening the connections there. There seems to be the main connection nut that goes to something like an extension that also has a place to tighten to the pump body. Also, there is a nut that goes maybe through this perpendicular onto the pump body. Anyway, I tried tightening all three. We started the engine and diesel was spraying and dripping like crazy. After a few attempts, I have managed to get rid of the spray, and the drip is steady but not a ton. Definitely worse than when I started (A drip every few seconds). So, I left we'll enough alone and going to try to get closer to a dock at Fernandina or maybe all the way to Brunswick before going at it again and potentially breaking things. I can see the whole line assembly moving when I wrench hard. Am I just getting things out of alignment? Is there a gasket in there that is going bad? Or do I just need to tighten the heck out of something? Am I supposed to be tightening all those different places at the connection? Is a drip a second going to make the engine stop suddenly in a bad place?

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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel leak
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2018 16:13 
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Skipper

Joined: 24 Sep 2013 09:20
Posts: 393
So, we motored 5 hours today to Fernandina. Motor ran perfectly but the drip from the injector line mentioned previously was 1 every few seconds. Also, seems like diesel is dripping from the two bolt heads next to that injector fitting on the pump body (I tried to tighten them too the day before). Im not sure what they are and what i should do with them. Diesel could be coming from above these. Hard to see. Bottom line is I wish I wouldn't have messed with it. Seems like I'm only making it worse. I may try one more time to tighten or loosen then tighten these fittings. Or I may just get a mechanic to do it. Will report back. Any thoughts appreciated.

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Zach Duncan
SV Holiday
Hull# 280


 
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