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Tartan 37 Owner's Forum - Ride the wind, but look good doing it!
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 Post subject: Information, please.
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2006 18:45 
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Midshipman

Joined: 30 Dec 2006 18:37
Posts: 55
Greetings to all,
I hope you don't mind my intrusion, but I am researching the Tartan 37 for possible purchase, and am confused by the phrf ratings I'm finding. I seem to find ratings in the 170+ range as well as in the 130's. Was there a design change in the Tartan 37 somewhere along the line, or am I confusing it with a differet Tartan model?
Thanks in advance for your responses

Doug


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2006 03:11 
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Skipper

Joined: 20 Oct 2006 16:10
Posts: 673
Location: Out of Waukegan, IL
80% of the hulls were made with a centerboard, 20% have a deep fin keel. That's certainly a big difference in PHRF. Beyond that, it's just a matter of rigging and sail plan. Tartan 3700 is completely different of course.

That said... I Googled around a bit and found this list for the Chesapeake Bay PHRF. There is a Tartan 37-2 listed and Tartan has parts for them... I'm not sure where they fall in the history but that's not us. Pretty sure 37-3 is the 37C
Quote:
138 4P TARTAN 37-3 SK AS RFA 137 03/25 MRYC BLEW BAYOU 11 52372 R. M. Rosenfeld
138 4P TARTAN 37-3 SK RFA 150 03/25 CBYRAN SEEADLER 11 37235 W. B. Read

Abbreviations used as suffix to Class/Length: ODR-One Design Rating, UC-Unconventional Craft, AL-Aluminum Mast, AS-Asymmetrical Spinnaker, RFA- Roller Furling Above deck, RFB-Roller Furling Below deck, FP-Fixed Prop, MOD-Modified, SM-Short Mast, TM-Tall Mast, VTM-Very Tall Mast, CB-Centerboard, OS-Oversize Spinnaker, OL-Oversize Luff, OP-Oversize Pole, BS-Bow Sprit, SD-Shoal Draft, SK-Swing Keel, SHK-Shortened Keel, IK-Iron Keel, WK-Wing Keel, DK-Drop Keel, MH-MastHead rig, FR-Fractional Rig, RAC-Racing version, YWL-Yawl, CUT-Cutter, OB-Outboard engine, IB-Inboard engine, CPA1, CPA2, CPA3 - Boat assigned to class PHRF A1, PHRF A2, or PHRF A3, GR-Gaff Rigged..


Full doc at http://www.phrfchesbay.com/validlist.pdf

High Flight was once given a much envied 153 (Lake MI PHRF) but we have a loose footed furling main/full keel and I think got points for the dodger (well I'm sure we tried anyway Cool ). This was just Jib and Main - no spin. It was for a beer can series and is several yrs out of date.

_________________
SMMO/First Mate aboard High Flight #299
1981 - Full Keel - Furling Main (A boat for the lazy crew...)


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2006 12:58 
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Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 31 Oct 2006 19:43
Posts: 36
Happy New Year,

In regards to the PHRF for a Tartan 37 the T37-2 is the correct model for a S&S design with centerboard, and should have a rating of 129 or so in New England for racing (spinnaker) class and I think 144 for non spinnaker. often the deep keel version is called a Tartan 38 it may have a lower rating due to its taller mast and keel underbody. The Hood designed Blackwatch Tartan 37 would have a higher rating in the 170 range, and the Tartan 372(no hyphn)has a PHRF code of 37-3, a little confusing
http://www.boats.com/content/boat-artic ... entid=7822

T372 refers to the last few built a different rudder and underbody and with a taller, double spreader mast placed a few feet forward of the mast location on the 37-2. The headsails on those are smaller and the sail area is made up by a larger mainsail. http://www.phrfne.org/page/567

Sam


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2006 13:25 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 20 Oct 2006 16:10
Posts: 673
Location: Out of Waukegan, IL
Sam wrote:
a little confusing

...uh... just a little. Especially considering Tartan's designation for parts. (37-2, 37C, and 3700) Thanks for clearing that up.

Then here's the proper quote from the Chesapeake PHRF. Note the CB/SK (Centerboard/SwingKeel) disparity. Odd.
Quote:
150 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB 150 02/10 CYCP WHIM 11 21773 R. W. Engle
156 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB AS FP RFA 150 02/02 EYC SOLSTICE 11 22626 E. V. Berry
156 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB AS FP RFA 150 01/09 CBYRAN SARATOGA 11 227 P. R. Easley
150 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB AS RFA 150 01/09 EYC TARKA 11 21082 F. W. Sieling, III
156 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB FP RFA 150 06/29 SSC MAIGHDEAN MHARA 11 79 R. N. O'Donnel
156 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB FP RFA 140 01/12 CBYRAN PELICAN 11 93293 D. D. Garner
150 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB RFA 140 03/07 CYCP KRISTINA 11 93449 J. F. Audley, Jr.
150 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB RFA 155 01/14 CYCP ESPRIT 11 324 C. S. Seltzer, Jr.
150 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB RFA 150 05/27 BBSA PUFF CARD 11 23528 W. A. Boatwright
150 4P TARTAN 37-2 CB RFA 155 02/11 PBC SOLAS 11 US 1111 J. R. Burnell
156 4P TARTAN 37-2 SK RFA 134 10/18 YPYC ZEPHYR 11 41477 C. W. Robertson
156 4P TARTAN 37-2 SK RFA 150 02/13 CYCP TRYST 11 83486 J & M Anderson 1


I see the Tartan Owners page has the deep keel S&S as the 38 as well. http://www.tartanowners.org/models.phtml

_________________
SMMO/First Mate aboard High Flight #299
1981 - Full Keel - Furling Main (A boat for the lazy crew...)


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2007 12:52 
Offline
Able Bodied Seaman

Joined: 31 Oct 2006 19:43
Posts: 36
This is the first time I get to use 2007 in true way, hope all will have a good year.

As far as the PHRF abbreveations noted above, I did see that and yes I agree that SK is listed as "swing keel" but I would bring up the point that T372s have a "Scheel Keel" and my guess is that in the case of the T372, SK would mean Scheel Keel. A Scheel Keel is fixed with a bulb of sorts at the bottom to keep the weight low, the shape of the lead bulb is not round like a torpedo, but flattened on the bottom kinda like a tire low on air pressure.
http://www.ventureyachts.com/ph40shoalkeel.html

Sam


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2007 12:41 
Offline
Midshipman

Joined: 30 Oct 2006 15:40
Posts: 63
I am on the rating committee for the WF PHRF covering all of West Florida. I can tell you that the "base" rating for the S&S Tartan 37 is around 130-138. I have to say "around" as some clubs make local adjustments, but this is for a race-prepared boat with spinnaker.

Many clubs now give a non-spinnaker adjustment. This number is usually about 17 seconds per mile, but WF PHRF just changed this to 26 seconds per mile because they felt the original adjustment was too low. We have a few races where spinnaker and non-spinnaker boats race together and the spinnaker boats usually won.

Many clubs are now giving adjustments for boats that are not fully "race ready". These adjustments include roller furling, smaller headsails, and fixed props. This can easily add up to 20 seconds or more.

Some clubs are now hosting a "cruising class" where further adjustments are made for old sails, biminis, dinghys on davits, extra anchors, and full tankage.

So as a result you will see ratings that are all over the map.

The S&S Tartan 37 is fast, seaworthy, and goes to windward like it is going home. It is a delight to race or cruise. All it takes is a few good crew. We find it takes a minimum of four to race it well in the non-spinnaker class. We are winning our share of the races.

Good luck.

Jammin'
#226


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2007 15:27 
Offline
Skipper

Joined: 20 Oct 2006 16:10
Posts: 673
Location: Out of Waukegan, IL
That's great PHRF info. Bow

And I can second all the above performance impressions. Except that with the furling main 3 crew makes it comfortable to race, 2 makes it possible but busy, 4 give us ballast or a galley slave. Cheers

In a moderate to heavy air High Flight kicks transom. (again, full keel makes for bad light wind nights.)

_________________
SMMO/First Mate aboard High Flight #299
1981 - Full Keel - Furling Main (A boat for the lazy crew...)


 
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 Post subject: Re: Information, please.
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2007 17:31 
Offline
Midshipman

Joined: 22 Oct 2006 19:25
Posts: 61
I race my T37 on Lake Ouachita (Arkansas) singlehanded and have never raced with more than one other crew member (typically my wife). However, an autopilot with a remote is essential, especially in winds 15 to 20 knots gusting to 25 (conditions last weekend). Upwind is no problem except that the 155 genoa sometimes gets hung on the shrouds when tacking. Downwind I've been hoisting a gennaker in a sock, but find poling out the 155 and running wing to wing works about as well. Although Lake Ouachita is 40,000 acres plus, conditions often involve sailing in confined areas with constantly changing wind strength and direction. The only thing I don't have to worry about is wave height. More crew, however, would enable better performance as its the cumulative effect of little things than can't be always controlled by one or two crew members that looses races. Jay


 
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